2jzgte swap advice

[normalsalaryman]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

If you don't mind me pointing this out, the 2jz-gte is not an inexpensive engine to run. Among many other things, it requires fully synthetic oil and race fuel (and/or water-meth injection, or E85) at higher boost levels.

A 2jz-gte (with high boost) also puts out enough horsepower that (perhaps) the a31cefiro chassis and/or brakes won't be able to handle it. There's a good reason the jza80 chassis+engine is $30K+ - it's because the entire automotive system was engineered together (by Toyota and TRD of course) to handle all of the power potential and other performance characteristics (braking, handling, aerodynamics, traction, etc., etc.).

Have you heard the expression "there is no such thing as a free lunch"? If not, it means you'll always end up paying one way or another - in time/labor, frustration, rework, risk, etc. Although I definitely wish you luck with your project no matter what you decide, I have to let you know I'm quite skeptical about your (apparent) goal of trying to do it all really cheaply. Alternatively, you may wish to consider working longer and/or harder and saving up the $ to purchase the Mkiv Toyota Supra Turbo that it seems you may really want. I can assure you that it will be worth the wait...

no no, you get me wrong to think that i want the cheapest stuff...when i say $30k is something like cheapest sports car like toyota celica the one with 2zzengine.

jza80 pricing sits at $95k the whole complete car on auto tranny..

as for the a31 cefiro body to hold lets say 1000hp to be honest i wasnt sure if the body would handle that much power even i did reinforced trying to increase the body rigids steps. i guess we will know after the car is done.

and for the fuel originaly we only have 98 octane for the highest quality fuel, but i have the acces to get the race fuel like vp or avgas(thats what we called it) easy.

as in for amount of money would be blown to mods the car, i am familiar with that. as i do own 2 honda eg fully race built. so i know faster=more money.

what i've been posting about 2jz is that i get the impression from the forum that you can go pretty cheap with 2jz for certain amount of money, and i do aware if i want to go 700hp+ equal to big money involved.

and i've been wondering about how cheap you can go on the 2jz for lower that 500hp because i planned to daily the car. im talking about the longevity of the engine assuming i did all the thing right if i go the cheapest way.thats why i've been asking all the guru's or experienced guys such as your self on this forum phill. and im trying my best to get it right for the first time for the turbo engine.

lets say most of the advice is telling me to go expensive, i wouldnt mind that

anyway if i do have an aftermarket ECU will i still need BCC to run higher boost on oem TT without having a fuel cut? and if i do still need BCC on upgraded ECU what brand i should go with for the BCC since the only BCC brand that i know is greddy and its discontinued.

thx
Matt

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by normalsalaryman

no no, you get me wrong to think that i want the cheapest stuff...when i say $30k is something like cheapest sports car like toyota celica the one with 2zzengine.

jza80 pricing sits at $95k the whole complete car on auto tranny..

as for the a31 cefiro body to hold lets say 1000hp to be honest i wasnt sure if the body would handle that much power even i did reinforced trying to increase the body rigids steps. i guess we will know after the car is done.

and for the fuel originaly we only have 98 octane for the highest quality fuel, but i have the acces to get the race fuel like vp or avgas(thats what we called it) easy.

as in for amount of money would be blown to mods the car, i am familiar with that. as i do own 2 honda eg fully race built. so i know faster=more money.

what i've been posting about 2jz is that i get the impression from the forum that you can go pretty cheap with 2jz for certain amount of money, and i do aware if i want to go 700hp+ equal to big money involved.

and i've been wondering about how cheap you can go on the 2jz for lower that 500hp because i planned to daily the car. im talking about the longevity of the engine assuming i did all the thing right if i go the cheapest way.thats why i've been asking all the guru's or experienced guys such as your self on this forum phill. and im trying my best to get it right for the first time for the turbo engine.

lets say most of the advice is telling me to go expensive, i wouldnt mind that

anyway if i do have an aftermarket ECU will i still need BCC to run higher boost on oem TT without having a fuel cut? and if i do still need BCC on upgraded ECU what brand i should go with for the BCC since the only BCC brand that i know is greddy and its discontinued.

thx
Matt

you're right - a BCC is only needed with the oem 2jz-gte ecu. Still, my other BPU advice still applies - you need a downpipe (bypassing the catalytic converters), a boost gauge, and a boost controller long before you need to spend money on a big intercooler or a huge 4"+ aftermarket exhaust...

500rwhp is not really a cost-effective point for the 2jz-gte. you could do:

- 350rwhp on pump gas, using the oem twins
...(if you're very careful about controlling boost precisely)
- 425rwhp on race fuel or alcohol, using the oem twins

- 475rwhp on pump gas, using a moderate size single turbo, & fuel system
...(if you're very careful about controlling boost precisely)
- 650rwhp or so on race fuel or alcohol, using a moderate size single turbo & fuel system

for the 2jz-gte, those are your most cost effective points

oh, note that avgas is not the same as race fuel. avgas is aviation fuel, which is chemically engineered to run best at higher altitudes. it has the wrong % of long-chain hydrocarbons to effectively power a turbocharged car engine at ground level.

[normalsalaryman]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

you're right - a BCC is only needed with the oem 2jz-gte ecu. Still, my other BPU advice still applies - you need a downpipe (bypassing the catalytic converters), a boost gauge, and a boost controller long before you need to spend money on a big intercooler or a huge 4"+ aftermarket exhaust...

500rwhp is not really a cost-effective point for the 2jz-gte. you could do:

- 350rwhp on pump gas, using the oem twins
...(if you're very careful about controlling boost precisely)
- 425rwhp on race fuel or alcohol, using the oem twins

- 475rwhp on pump gas, using a moderate size single turbo, & fuel system
...(if you're very careful about controlling boost precisely)
- 650rwhp or so on race fuel or alcohol, using a moderate size single turbo & fuel system

for the 2jz-gte, those are your most cost effective points

oh, note that avgas is not the same as race fuel. avgas is aviation fuel, which is chemically engineered to run best at higher altitudes. it has the wrong % of long-chain hydrocarbons to effectively power a turbocharged car engine at ground level.

talking about Avgas been wondering if you know much about that stuff, most of the people backhome has been saying avgas has same number of octane as the vp, BUT i did try once it does no different in term of acceleration, but my engine temperature is raising rapidly..almost twice hotter than a vp fuel. and somehow my idle is higher than normal it does when im running on vp fuel...on an NA engine

i dont know if avgas act like that or if you ever try and experience different..

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by normalsalaryman

talking about Avgas been wondering if you know much about that stuff, most of the people backhome has been saying avgas has same number of octane as the vp, BUT i did try once it does no different in term of acceleration, but my engine temperature is raising rapidly..almost twice hotter than a vp fuel. and somehow my idle is higher than normal it does when im running on vp fuel...on an NA engine

i dont know if avgas act like that or if you ever try and experience different..

Yep that's consistent. The very cold air in high altitudes is also a factor in how avgas is formulated. Please stick with VP fuel or methanol injection or E85 to eliminate detonation when using the 2jz-gte at high boost.

[warmkop]

Sorry for taking long to replay my internet was off.
People here use the w58 boks to drag with because the v160 is so scares and expensive. It will handle the 500hp but it depends on your driving if you drive hard it, won't last long.

If you can use the oem ecu its much better then an aftermarket one.
Aftermarket ecu take a lot of tuning to get perfect.
On the exhaust side you don't have a choice so you're doing an engine swap into another car so you need to get an exhaust made up for you wile you busy do it from the downpipe.

[normalsalaryman]

Originally Posted by warmkop

People here use the w58 boks to drag with because the v160 is so scares and expensive. It will handle the 500hp but it depends on your driving if you drive hard it, won't last long.

wait i kinda dont get what you mean by driving it hard, hard as in throwing the gear change lik roughly or under hard acceleration but gentle gear shift?.

cus i was planing to daily my car, and most probably i will drive the car like full acceleration(not from dead stop) most of the time,but since im a gentle shifter guy so i wont be thrasing on shifting...will that consider as hard driving?

and ya since i only have engine+tranny+ecu and wiring only when i bought the engine, so i will definitely do a custom upgraded full exhaust system, big intercooler,custom pipping and upgraded radiator, since the old car had a busted radiator and busted suspension. but i will definitely do a general inspection on the engine internal including the gearbox too..

even most of the stuff is custom made and temporarily targeting at 500hp as the entrance power, we're building all he thing to a 1000hp standart equipment in mind, so once i found the v160 box i can just fit the new boxs and big turbo and bam here we go 1000hp car without having to replace the other part first, before i can achieve 1000hp fix this and that, so its like one way build like 1000hp standart equipment but instead of big turbo i went with oem turbo while waiting for the v160boxs.

[warmkop]

Yes like snap changing gears and spinning on purpose then it just matter of time until something breaks. But like you said driving normal it should last but yes it also depends on the condition of the boks. I have seen people race a lot of events on a box and the next box will just break.So it depend on the condition of boks and what condition you put it through

1000hp is not that easy and it is very expensive

[normalsalaryman]

i know 1000hp would be expensive, but i think im covered for that lol...i guess till i have v160 in my hand, i'll stick to around 500 for now....

i do curious how long will the refrshed w58gbox will last.since i got to live with it for a moment..i do hope it doesnt as weak as people on the other forum has been saying*finger.cross.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by normalsalaryman

...and ya since i only have engine+tranny+ecu and wiring only when i bought the engine, so i will definitely do a custom upgraded full exhaust system, big intercooler,custom pipping and upgraded radiator...

A big intercooler will introduce a LOT of extra lag at the ~500rwhp level. Think about all that extra volume of air that needs to get compressed, with those very small oem twin turbos, before you begin to make boost.
...
...

Originally Posted by normalsalaryman

...even most of the stuff is custom made and temporarily targeting at 500hp as the entrance power...

Originally Posted by normalsalaryman

...i guess till i have v160 in my hand, i'll stick to around 500 for now...

Again, 500rwhp isn't a cost-effective point for the 2jz-gte.