No fire no start...! lil help please

[94GT47Widebody]

I appologize..Let me explain better.

From the begining...

I was driving and noticed the car had less power and sounded different (misfiring)

On my way home I broke the cam belt tesnioner throwing the car out of time but still able to run enough to get me home. (one time its good to still have a stock block)

I replaced the tensioner with a billet one. put the car back in time and it ran again with the same lack of power and still sounding differnt.

I decided to put fresh fuel in the car (91octane) and take it for a spin (I know I need race fuel!)

while driving the car spit sputters and threw a bomb out the back end ran for a few seconds more and then died.

I towed the car back to my house and began to troubleshoot.... and now here is what I found.....

Number 4 plug electrode was melted away:
I replaced the nuber 4 plug only and gapped it according to what 1 2 3 were gapped. I tried to start the car and would not start.

At that point I decided to check spark:
Pulled #2 plug and coil pack (#2 is super easy to get to thats why)
It sparked..

Pulled number 1 plug and coil pack. No spark

I took plug from 1 and checked with number 2 coil pack on number 2 harness connection... I had spark.... good plug!

I then moved number 1 plug and number 1 coil pack to the number 2 harness connection and checked for spark..... I have spark!

These are the same symptoms for 1 3 4 5 6! Good plugs, Good coils.. no spark.

Basically I am only getting signal to the number 2 harness plug to initiate the spark.


All modifications were completed by Ryan Woon at WOTM. As of now I have no reason to doubt his desgn. His only recomendation to me was to run with race fuel as much as possible. Boost is as low as the controller will allow me to go.. roughly 16psi. Plugs are a 7 heat range NGK VPOWER

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by 94T88Widebody

I appologize..Let me explain better.

From the begining...

I was driving and noticed the car had less power and sounded different (misfiring)

On my way home I broke the cam belt tesnioner throwing the car out of time but still able to run enough to get me home. (one time its good to still have a stock block)

I replaced the tensioner with a billet one. put the car back in time and it ran again with the same lack of power and still sounding differnt.

I decided to put fresh fuel in the car (91octane) and take it for a spin (I know I need race fuel!)

while driving the car spit sputters and threw a bomb out the back end ran for a few seconds more and then died.

I towed the car back to my house and began to troubleshoot.... and now here is what I found.....

Number 4 plug electrode was melted away:
I replaced the nuber 4 plug only and gapped it according to what 1 2 3 were gapped. I tried to start the car and would not start.

At that point I decided to check spark:
Pulled #2 plug and coil pack (#2 is super easy to get to thats why)
It sparked..

Pulled number 1 plug and coil pack. No spark

I took plug from 1 and checked with number 2 coil pack on number 2 harness connection... I had spark.... good plug!

I then moved number 1 plug and number 1 coil pack to the number 2 harness connection and checked for spark..... I have spark!

These are the same symptoms for 1 3 4 5 6! Good plugs, Good coils.. no spark.

Basically I am only getting signal to the number 2 harness plug to initiate the spark.


All modifications were completed by Ryan Woon at WOTM. As of now I have no reason to doubt his desgn. His only recomendation to me was to run with race fuel as much as possible. Boost is as low as the controller will allow me to go.. roughly 16psi. Plugs are a 7 heat range NGK VPOWER

Again, are you running an ignition amplifier of any sort (CDI or DLI)? And is your AEM set up to use waste spark ignition? If so, note that your #2 and #5 ignition signals are driven out of the same AEM output...which means that your #5 coil & plug should fire at the same time as #2. This is another reason I suspect your ignitor (and/or your ignition amplifier, if any) may be related to the problem.

Your broken tensioner bracket could still have caused valve(s) to be bent if your head were decked and if you're running 272 or 280 cams (are you? ...or are you running stock cams too? )...but either way a failure in the cam timing should not have any effect on the ignition. About the only semi-related item is the 'toothed' crank position sensor gear attached to the crankshaft's timing belt gear. When you plug a laptop into your AEM are you getting an accurate RPM signal while trying to start the engine?

Another troubleshooting step you should take (imo) is a compression test. Although this is not directly related to the ignition problem, it can help determine if you have either bent valves or scored cylinder walls (from spark plug debris).

[94GT47Widebody]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Your broken tensioner bracket could still have caused valve(s) to be bent if your head were decked and if you're running 272 or 280 cams (are you? ...or are you running stock cams too? )

I have a completely stock block... The car was running as good as it was before the tesioner broke.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

About the only semi-related item is the 'toothed' crank position sensor gear attached to the crankshaft's timing belt gear. When you plug a laptop into your AEM are you getting an accurate RPM signal while trying to start the engine?

I will check.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Another troubleshooting step you should take (imo) is a compression test. Although this is not directly related to the ignition problem, it can help determine if you have either bent valves or scored cylinder walls (from spark plug debris).

I checked this in the begining... I have 100 -120 psi depending on wich cyinder



Again, are you running an ignition amplifier of any sort (CDI or DLI)?

It all appears to be stock "Toyota Denso part numbers"


And is your AEM set up to use waste spark ignition?

I do not know... I will find out as soon as Ryan answers his phone!

[94GT47Widebody]

Okay...I thimk we may be getting somewhere..... I hooked into the AEM .......no Engine RPM...

Would this be a good time to assume my CPS system has a problem...?

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by 94T88Widebody

Okay...I thimk we may be getting somewhere..... I hooked into the AEM .......no Engine RPM...

Would this be a good time to assume my CPS system has a problem...?

It's a good guess. It's possible your loose timing belt knocked off the 'toothed' crank position sensor gear (attached to the crankshaft's timing belt gear) when you ran with a broken tensioner bracket...

Can you post pictures of your engine bay?

[94GT47Widebody]

my web server is currently down so I can not post pics... I will have it up in a day or so and would be more than happy to post.

ok here is what I have found..

The belt istalled by me.. was riding very far back on the cam gears and main.. the caused the "indicator star" <-- not sure what to call it to be pushed off the back of the crank.

now my problem is..how do I get it back on.. it is currently spinning freely

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by 94T88Widebody

my web server is currently down so I can not post pics... I will have it up in a day or so and would be more than happy to post.

ok here is what I have found..

The belt istalled by me.. was riding very far back on the cam gears and main.. the caused the "indicator star" <-- not sure what to call it to be pushed off the back of the crank.

now my problem is..how do I get it back on.. it is currently spinning freely

Your "indicator star" is actually a 'toothed' crank position sensor gear...and it is (normally) attached to the crankshaft's timing belt gear. To reattach it, you'll have to remove both your harmonic dampener and your timing belt gear from the crankshaft. The crank position sensor gear is only a press-fit onto the timing gear, and you can simply pop it back on. Many people use a chisel to 'dimple' the back of the gear slightly to ensure it doesn't pop off again ... and some guys I know have even had it welded in place. Another option would be a thin layer of jb-weld. Either way, when you're sure it's firmly attached to the crankshaft's timing gear again, you can reassemble everything.

Be sure to follow all the steps in the TSRM when you remove and replace the timing gear.

IF this corrects your ignition problem, I'd strongly recommend that we continue this thread until we figure out exactly how your sparkplug melted...and figure out what needs to be done to avoid this in the future.

[SKILMATIC]

All modifications were completed by Ryan Woon at WOTM. As of now I have no reason to doubt his desgn. His only recomendation to me was to run with race fuel as much as possible. Boost is as low as the controller will allow me to go.. roughly 16psi. Plugs are a 7 heat range NGK VPOWER

I know WOTM. And I know Ryan woom(not personally) he has a 8sec qtr mile silver supra with 1400rwhp. WOTM does some nice stuff. I saw some of their work at SEMA. Hey just out of curiousity, have they gotten that project evo done yet? Sorry for the off topic stuff.

[94GT47Widebody]

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

I know WOTM. And I know Ryan woom(not personally) he has a 8sec qtr mile silver supra with 1400rwhp. WOTM does some nice stuff. I saw some of their work at SEMA. Hey just out of curiousity, have they gotten that project evo done yet? Sorry for the off topic stuff.

I know they tested the EVO at the track about a month back.. I am not sure if it is done yet. I have seent that car in person... It is a beautiful machien!

[SKILMATIC]

and a nice easy way to put it

if ya got a melted spark plug... i can gaurantee you have melted pistons = bad compression = bad running = tear down time

experienced this 3 times on one engine unfortunately

I beleive he said earlier that he already checked compression and it checked out fine.

I checked this in the begining... I have 100 -120 psi depending on wich cyinder

This is what he said.