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Old 11-04-2011, 08:01 PM   #1
icey756
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Talking MAFT Pro or something newer/better now

I was looking into engine management because I would like to get rid of my air flow sensor. So far i see that the best way to do that is to get some type of engine management. I have seen threads on MAFT Pro and it definitely looks like the option to go with. I have also read that in order to delete you air flow sensor you would need to get more parts for the MAFT Pro. All these threads seem to be old so im just curious as to if there is something else out there now. I would like to go into further discussion about MAFT if thats still the way to go.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:19 PM   #2
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The MAFT-Pro is indeed a very good and flexible unit. It can however be difficult for the novice to setup and finding COMPETENT, local support may prove equally difficult. For a while I was the only person in my state who was installing them. I eventually stopped because I was sick of cleaning up what other shops had totally f'd up and it's hard to pay them a visit and educate them when the car was shipped to you from across the state.

The MAFT-Pro isn't without it's peculiarities. The Toyota TCCS type ECUs have some issues which need to be worked around. Some of the solutions I have posted on one of my servers and linked to in a number of threads, a little digging will find you the link. Other solutions I had been trying to work out with Bob (the developer) but I stopped working on cars altogether shortly thereafter (except my own and those of friends, naturally)... It was just a side job. One issue which I worked out a not entirely convenient solution for is that the TCCS adds a percentage of fuel to the entire fuel map depending on whether the car was started cold or warm.... odd. So, I added a momentary switch which would add a certain amount of resistance to the coolant temp sensor circuit always making the ECU believe the car was being started cold. You had to hold the switch for about 5 seconds once you started the engine. I only figured out this issue at the end, so my car and one up North were the only two I installed it in.... it fixed a lot of tuning confusion. Bob was gathering information to see if it was something the MAFT Pro could be programmed to handle with one of the auxiliary channels but I don't know that anything ever came of it. If I decide to install a MAFT Pro in my MR-2 in order to convert to E-85 I'll probably look into it further.... possibly using a timed relay this time. It is actually an issue with other piggybacks but seems to be the most obvious with the MAFT Gen II and MAFT Pro (probably because they're the most likely to be installed along with an on-board wide band). If you don't install a work around for this issue you would be wise to only tune when the car has been started cold; Once you restart the engine and it's warm the fuel map shifts.

Overall it's a very nice system if you can get through the initial setup. Tuning, once the base parameters are set, isn't much different than with simpler piggybacks and it's very nice to have ignition control, timing control and fuel control all in one unit and monitored by just one program on your laptop (much like a standalone). For ease of install one of the more popular standalone units is what I'm more inclined to recommend; As you won't be fighting with the limitations of two different computers. From a budget minded point of view the MAFT-Pro is not to be ignored.

Before anyone asks; No, I do not offer support for it. They've a good website, I've posted a lot about it already (here and on SM), they have a broad user base over on SM) and I've posted my wiring diagrams and tips on my website.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:29 PM   #3
icey756
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If i were to go the standalone route would i still be able to delete my air flow sensor? What else could i get rid of if possible? I was looking around to figure it out but for some reason i cant find anything on that. What standalone system would u recommend? Also would the standalone be able to control boost like the MAFT Pro would be able to with the extra sensors? Or would i have to go the electronic boost controller route?
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:57 PM   #4
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Any decent standalone will have the same features as the MAFT Pro, if not more. Delete? You can't delete much... actually you don't delete anything with the MAFT Pro, you're just swapping one type of device for another.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:43 AM   #5
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I meant like remove. I know that with the MAFT Pro you can set it up so you dont have to run a air flow sensor. correct me if wrong. Or do they us a free flowing sensor? I seem to remember seeing many intakes with out a MAF.
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Old 11-05-2011, 02:33 AM   #6
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LOL. Well, given that no Supra (prior to the MKIV) ever came with a MAF it's unlikely you'd ever see one... not that you can't convert to a MAF if you wish; That's what the original MAF-T and the MAFT Gen II do. The Supra has either a VAFM or a KVAFM. Now if you're talking about the 1JZ-GTE or 1G-GTE then they run Speed/Density using a MAP sensor and an IAT. The 2JZ-GE used a KVAFM (at least in the earlier years). (((It's not relevent to this thread, but the 2JZ-GTE in the MKIV did use a "hotwire" type MAF))) There's a big difference between all of these. The generic for a KVAFM or a VAFM would be just AFM. (If you want more specifics I've covered this one very thoroughly in the past... practically wrote a paper. Might try searching Karman Vortex.)

EDIT: Hell, I can't find the big post on it... I may have deleted it for being too verbose or it may have been in a thread which was deleted. These posts have more info:
http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/78657-post14.html
http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/86910-post6.html


At any rate, yes, the MAFT Pro supports Speed/Density (MAP/IAT) setups. It calculates airflow by measuring manifold pressure and air temp so all you have is a sensor connected with a vacuum hose and a small temp sensor in the piping. One big difference is that this setup calculates air flow it doesn't actually measure it... again it's a big difference whether you understand why or not.

IMHO, Running a nice big GM MAF in a blow through setup is a little less sketchy and good bit easier to setup.



EDIT: And yes, I am picking on you. I had actually already answered the question with the statement that most standalones will do the same things (and then some).

EDIT2: Actually, I'm wrong. The 2JZ-GTE in the MKIV did use a "hotwire" MAF. My bad. I thought they ran S/D.
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Old 11-05-2011, 04:55 AM   #7
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ok so i guess i would go with the blow through setup. When i was reading about the MAFT Pro i saw something about having to run no MAF in order to use it as a boost controller. Is that going to be the same case if i get a standalone? Or do i have the first part wrong about the MAF. And yet another question. Am i better off getting a standalone now or should i wait until i get aftermarket parts? I wouldn't really mind getting one right away just to keep safe, because i know i'll have to buy one anyway. But i dont want to have to bring it into a dyno to tune it all the time. I feel as if I am asking too many questions. sorry
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Old 11-05-2011, 05:45 AM   #8
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just from experience i absolutely LOVE my maft with gm MAF. Setup was easy as can be and tuning it is literally just turning knobs. Its not as fine of a tuning device as the maft pro or even an safc but, it works good and allows for bov venting to atmosphere. Also you can mount the maf basically ON the throttle body witch means if you lose a charge pipe your car will still run fine to get it somewhere you can fix it. Good inexpensive system IMO.

A standalone system won't do much for you until you have mods for it to support. It will give you a few hp with just the standalone some injectors and a boost control. If you do a fmic kit at the same time you should see decent numbers, but going full standalone is pricey and difficult for the weekend mechanic.

Now for the good of a standalone... You have basically infinite tuning and can run a speed density system and setup a COP system. Megasquirt 3 is now offering full seqential injector and plug firing if you feel you need to be that precise. All in all a standalone is a VERY good upgrade, but without upgrades for it to support its basically useless.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:41 AM   #9
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Turbo i dont remember asking your opinion. LOL totally kidding dude thanks for the input. I'm almost thinking maybe i should just go for piggy back for now then. I wanted to do a lexus and 550's but if i get the piggy back and switch out the afm i guess the lexus would be pointless. What about using the MAFT for a boost controller as well? As i stated before it said in order to run it as a boost controller u would need to remove the afm. correct me if im wrong.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:35 PM   #10
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The boost control functionality does require a MAP sensor to be installed. Unfortunately due to some limitation (the specifics of which I do not remember) boost control wasn't an option even in a hybrid setup (both MAF AND MAP installed, I won't go any further into this type of setup). So, yes. For boost control you have to run speed/density. I usually recommend that people with little to no experience who want to do it on their own that they start with setting it up for a MAF without using boost control or ignition control and then once they're comfortable with it and have some idea how it SHOULD behave then switch to the S/D setup.

Turbonicsperformance, the newer devices do have a bit more kick to offer even stock setups. I do love the original MAF-T though... simple and smooth. A pretty elegant unit. But then I start thinking about the other functions I want and it's either a dash full of piggybacks and data cables or a MAFT Pro or standalone.

In my opinion, if you can afford it without choking standalone is and always will be 'top dog'. The MAFT-Pro is really an amazing piece of hardware. It's as close to a standalone as is possible for a piggyback to be. You could say that the Gen II is then only a couple steps lower. Sorry to say that everything else just sits in a pile at the bottom of the ladder.
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