buy a supra or only the 2jzgte?

s13_2jz · 08-06-2009, 05:07 PM

Good morning, May I ask You some info?

I'm very uncertain what I can do.

I've a nissan s13 (imported from germany to Italy.. I'm italian boy from Rome) (this is it: http://www.s13sr.altervista.org/ .. site in construction.. visible only some body's photos).

I don't know if I'll buy an used supra TT 6 speed or if I'll buy 2jzgte engine and gearbox and put it in my s13.

Problems are:

1) it's almost impossible to find in Europe a "very good" used supra tt 6 speed (preferably with v161 gearbox type) with left drive in Europe... and if there is, it costs a lot of money and no one ensures me the real miles done from the car and the real good condition of the car.. the price in Europe for a good "probable" supra with not too much miles is about 30/40.000 euro (43/60.000 $);

2) so, I'm thinking to buy the monoblock and head unit directly from Toyota (price for both "new" but "empty" about 5000 euro.. over 7000 $).. also because I'll develop the engine with a lot of racing pieces (brian crower stroker kit, valves kit, cams, head gasket, injectors, intake and exhaust system kit, garrett gt42rs BB, motec or mectronik ecu, other pieces by artisan works.. and other imaginable components)... so, the total price of components (included engine and head) will be about 20/25.000 euro (about 30/35.000 $) and then I'll have a new resistant and powerful engine instead of an used engine then rebuilted. Also because I prefear the look of s13 at supra's look;

3) other problems: the gearbox... I haven't asked how much money a new v161 gearbox costs, but I think that it costs a lot of money. And I can seek it used, but I'll don't know ever the real miles done with this gearbox, so it could happen that the used gearbox bought don't bear the high power that the engine will have (about 800hp), because this gearbox already have done a lot of miles. I'm thinking that pheraps I'll buy an used gearbox and then make it as new (I don't know, I can buy new gears or other.. but How much money I'll pay?).

So, cause this 3^ point (money for rebuild an used gearbox to do resistant to 800hp), pheraps I'll be forced to buy a "probably" good used supra to 50.000 $ (1 point) and not a new very resistant engine to 30.000 $ + 10/15.000$ of labor for a total 40/45.000 $ (2 point). If some of You know as I can pay only 10.000$ (so, I'll arrive to 50.000 $ in total) to have a v161 gearbox with internal components new (to resist at 800hp), please, tell me.

And if some of You can give me some advice or observation on which I have told in this message, I thank him.

A last question: Is there differences between 2jzgte engines? (which is the best 2jzgte as year and model?)

Thanks, best regards

pwpanas · 08-06-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s13_2jz

Good morning, May I ask You some info?

I'm very uncertain what I can do.

I've a nissan s13 (imported from germany to Italy.. I'm italian boy from Rome) (this is it: http://www.s13sr.altervista.org/ .. site in construction.. visible only some body's photos).

I don't know if I'll buy an used supra TT 6 speed or if I'll buy 2jzgte engine and gearbox and put it in my s13.

Problems are:

1) it's almost impossible to find in Europe a "very good" used supra tt 6 speed (preferably with v161 gearbox type) with left drive in Europe... and if there is, it costs a lot of money and no one ensures me the real miles done from the car and the real good condition of the car.. the price in Europe for a good "probable" supra with not too much miles is about 30/40.000 euro (43/60.000 $);

2) so, I'm thinking to buy the monoblock and head unit directly from Toyota (price for both "new" but "empty" about 5000 euro.. over 7000 $).. also because I'll develop the engine with a lot of racing pieces (brian crower stroker kit, valves kit, cams, head gasket, injectors, intake and exhaust system kit, garrett gt42rs BB, motec or mectronik ecu, other pieces by artisan works.. and other imaginable components)... so, the total price of components (included engine and head) will be about 20/25.000 euro (about 30/35.000 $) and then I'll have a new resistant and powerful engine instead of an used engine then rebuilted. Also because I prefear the look of s13 at supra's look;

3) other problems: the gearbox... I haven't asked how much money a new v161 gearbox costs, but I think that it costs a lot of money. And I can seek it used, but I'll don't know ever the real miles done with this gearbox, so it could happen that the used gearbox bought don't bear the high power that the engine will have (about 800hp), because this gearbox already have done a lot of miles. I'm thinking that pheraps I'll buy an used gearbox and then make it as new (I don't know, I can buy new gears or other.. but How much money I'll pay?).

So, cause this 3^ point (money for rebuild an used gearbox to do resistant to 800hp), pheraps I'll be forced to buy a "probably" good used supra to 50.000 $ (1 point) and not a new very resistant engine to 30.000 $ + 10/15.000$ of labor for a total 40/45.000 $ (2 point). If some of You know as I can pay only 10.000$ (so, I'll arrive to 50.000 $ in total) to have a v161 gearbox with internal components new (to resist at 800hp), please, tell me.

And if some of You can give me some advice or observation on which I have told in this message, I thank him.

A last question: Is there differences between 2jzgte engines? (which is the best 2jzgte as year and model?)

Thanks, best regards

0) I'd advise you to sell your s13 and get an mkiv tt 6spd. Sorry, but I'm a supra biggot.

1) Look for one that has good maintenance records, and get someone very familiar with the Mkiv TT to take it for a test drive before you buy it. With patience, and cash-in-hand, I'm confident that you'll find one.

2) You don't need racing pieces - oem pieces will take you to 800rwhp (1000hp at the crank), other than the injectors and the turbos. A motec ecu will be fine.

3) The v160 will handle over 1500rwhp (almost 2000hp at the crank). I believe the v161 has similar specs. The v160 is about $6K USD.

Lastly, there are no significant differences between the '93.5 through '98 model years of 2jzgte engines. After '98, Toyota added VVTi to the 2jz-gte.

Please feel free to ask additional or follow-up questions.

s13_2jz · 08-07-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwpanas

0) I'd advise you to sell your s13 and get an mkiv tt 6spd. Sorry, but I'm a supra biggot.

1) Look for one that has good maintenance records, and get someone very familiar with the Mkiv TT to take it for a test drive before you buy it. With patience, and cash-in-hand, I'm confident that you'll find one.

2) You don't need racing pieces - oem pieces will take you to 800rwhp (1000hp at the crank), other than the injectors and the turbos. A motec ecu will be fine.

3) The v160 will handle over 1500rwhp (almost 2000hp at the crank). I believe the v161 has similar specs. The v160 is about $6K USD.

Lastly, there are no significant differences between the '93.5 through '98 model years of 2jzgte engines. After '98, Toyota added VVTi to the 2jz-gte.

Please feel free to ask additional or follow-up questions.

I'll hold still my s13 ... in this case, I'll buy also a supra...

1) a car as You tell costs a lot of money here in Europe.. also because the I'll want to spend other money for development.. so, in every case, i want changed internal components

2) yes, i know also this, but i have thinked that a "new racing" 2jzgte is very reliable when I'll go on usually 700hp with gt4202r on 20/22 psi (and rarely to 800hp).. for me it's important that the engine is reliable (otherwise, i put a big turbocharger on sr20det to have about the same power o a little less, but with a weight inferior of 250/300 lbs)

3) I prefer the v161 gearbox only because I've calculated the final spped on every gear, on about tot rpm the engine will go, on tyres the car will go and for what I must do with the car. But If the v160 is more reliable of v161, i'll go with v160... however they should be equl for reliability, I hope (if some one know the difference between these 2 gearbox, please, tell me)

the VVTi 2jzgte I've read in internet (so, never of sure) that is inferior to the other 2jzgte, but I don't remember if it was reported at the reliability, or at the final power in development or at the behavior.

You have written: "The v160 is about $6K USD" .. Where? And what it means? new gearbox or probably new internal components of gearbox? (for me it's important only that it bears high power)

Thanks for all

bye

pwpanas · 08-07-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s13_2jz

...1) a car as You tell costs a lot of money here in Europe.. also because the I'll want to spend other money for development.. so, in every case, i want changed internal components...

Sorry I don't understand. Why waste $ on "changed internal components"? The gt4202r is a 1000hp turbo, which perfectly matches the strength of the oem 2jz-gte internals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s13_2jz

...2) yes, i know also this, but i have thinked that a "new racing" 2jzgte is very reliable when I'll go on usually 700hp with gt4202r on 20/22 psi (and rarely to 800hp).. for me it's important that the engine is reliable (otherwise, i put a big turbocharger on sr20det to have about the same power o a little less, but with a weight inferior of 250/300 lbs)...

Unfortunately, the way to improve 2jz-gte reliability at 1000hp has nothing to do with internals - it has to do with what kind of fuel you run. Run too low octane fuel (for a given max psi boost), and it'll detonate which ruins aftermarket or factory internals equally well. Run enough octane and your reliability is ensured. For 22psi max/peak, you'll need at least 100 MON octane to ensure reliability. E85 would do, and so would a very good meth/water injection system together with 93 R+M/2 fuel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s13_2jz

...the VVTi 2jzgte I've read in internet (so, never of sure) that is inferior to the other 2jzgte, but I don't remember if it was reported at the reliability, or at the final power in development or at the behavior....

I don't think it's less reliable...it's just that it's (slightly) more complicated to work with. Also, choices for the intake-side aftermarket cams are more limited.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s13_2jz

...You have written: "The v160 is about $6K USD" .. Where? And what it means? new gearbox or probably new internal components of gearbox? (for me it's important only that it bears high power)

About $6,000.00 United-States Dollars (USD), from Toyota.

s13_2jz · 08-07-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Sorry I don't understand. Why waste $ on "changed internal components"? The gt4202r is a 1000hp turbo, which perfectly matches the strength of the oem 2jz-gte internals.
Unfortunately, the way to improve 2jz-gte reliability at 1000hp has nothing to do with internals - it has to do with what kind of fuel you run. Run too low octane fuel (for a given max psi boost), and it'll detonate which ruins aftermarket or factory internals equally well. Run enough octane and your reliability is ensured. For 22psi max/peak, you'll need at least 100 MON octane to ensure reliability. E85 would do, and so would a very good meth/water injection system together with 93 R+M/2 fuel.
I don't think it's less reliable...it's just that it's (slightly) more complicated to work with. Also, choices for the intake-side aftermarket cams are more limited.
About $6,000.00 United-States Dollars (USD), from Toyota.

I know that 2jzgte is very strong also with oem internal components, but the question is that if I buy an used supra, i don't know with sure the real miles done (if indicated miles are really miles) and the real condition of internal components. So, i can do only 2 things: or I'll buy a supra with all annual toyota controls and not too much miles done.. but it will cost a lot of money.. or I'll work on 2jgte (used or new it is) with complete rebuilt or internal components, so I can also be sure that the engine and the gearbox are pratically new and very reliable.

For the fuel, no problem, I'll use at least shell v-power (100 octane) and if the car requires more octane, I'm thinking to buy directly one of this gasolines: http://www.extremecompetition.it/eng...sp?categoria=1 .. also because I'll use the car not every day (I'll have other 4 cars in family).. then, I'll do to develop the car by www.ramaracing.it (they are very very good) and they know what to do (they are also excellent on electronic development).

If I don't mistake, I read that the 93/97' 2jzgte is more used for big development.. probably because it's more simple to work.. but I don't know if it is better of vvti 2jzgte (for power).... and I don't know if the reliability is the same for both engine. Otherwise, if choices of some components for vvti 2jzgte are more limited, probably it's better to go on sure and to use a standard 2jzgte.

6.000$? If it is so, I'll buy directly in Toyota the gearbox (i asked the price of empty monoblock and head .. I don't ask for gearbox.. tomorrow i'll go to Toyota to ask...!!!.. ah: Is it compatible the v161 gearbox for 93/97' 2jzgte (that originally is v160)?.. I prefer the v161 for choice of gears (I hope that the reliability is the same between v160 and v161).

THANKS FOR ALL

s13_2jz · 08-08-2009, 12:13 PM

Today I'm gone in Toyota to ask the price of a new v161 gearbox... here in Italy the price is high: 22600$ (15600 euro) ...

So, if in Usa the price in toyota of a new supra gearbox is only 6000$... i'll buy there. May I contact the usa toyota?

pwpanas · 08-08-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s13_2jz

Today I'm gone in Toyota to ask the price of a new v161 gearbox... here in Italy the price is high: 22600$ (15600 euro) ...

So, if in Usa the price in toyota of a new supra gearbox is only 6000$... i'll buy there. May I contact the usa toyota?

Sure: +01 713-943-7010
http://www.championtoyotaparts.com/
As for Jeff Watson

08-06-2009, 05:07 PM	#1
s13_2jz Stock Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Rome (Italy) Posts: 4	buy a supra or only the 2jzgte? Good morning, May I ask You some info? I'm very uncertain what I can do. I've a nissan s13 (imported from germany to Italy.. I'm italian boy from Rome) (this is it: http://www.s13sr.altervista.org/ .. site in construction.. visible only some body's photos). I don't know if I'll buy an used supra TT 6 speed or if I'll buy 2jzgte engine and gearbox and put it in my s13. Problems are: 1) it's almost impossible to find in Europe a "very good" used supra tt 6 speed (preferably with v161 gearbox type) with left drive in Europe... and if there is, it costs a lot of money and no one ensures me the real miles done from the car and the real good condition of the car.. the price in Europe for a good "probable" supra with not too much miles is about 30/40.000 euro (43/60.000 $); 2) so, I'm thinking to buy the monoblock and head unit directly from Toyota (price for both "new" but "empty" about 5000 euro.. over 7000 $).. also because I'll develop the engine with a lot of racing pieces (brian crower stroker kit, valves kit, cams, head gasket, injectors, intake and exhaust system kit, garrett gt42rs BB, motec or mectronik ecu, other pieces by artisan works.. and other imaginable components)... so, the total price of components (included engine and head) will be about 20/25.000 euro (about 30/35.000 $) and then I'll have a new resistant and powerful engine instead of an used engine then rebuilted. Also because I prefear the look of s13 at supra's look; 3) other problems: the gearbox... I haven't asked how much money a new v161 gearbox costs, but I think that it costs a lot of money. And I can seek it used, but I'll don't know ever the real miles done with this gearbox, so it could happen that the used gearbox bought don't bear the high power that the engine will have (about 800hp), because this gearbox already have done a lot of miles. I'm thinking that pheraps I'll buy an used gearbox and then make it as new (I don't know, I can buy new gears or other.. but How much money I'll pay?). So, cause this 3^ point (money for rebuild an used gearbox to do resistant to 800hp), pheraps I'll be forced to buy a "probably" good used supra to 50.000 $ (1 point) and not a new very resistant engine to 30.000 $ + 10/15.000$ of labor for a total 40/45.000 $ (2 point). If some of You know as I can pay only 10.000$ (so, I'll arrive to 50.000 $ in total) to have a v161 gearbox with internal components new (to resist at 800hp), please, tell me. And if some of You can give me some advice or observation on which I have told in this message, I thank him. A last question: Is there differences between 2jzgte engines? (which is the best 2jzgte as year and model?) Thanks, best regards

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08-08-2009, 12:13 PM	#6
s13_2jz Stock Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Rome (Italy) Posts: 4	Today I'm gone in Toyota to ask the price of a new v161 gearbox... here in Italy the price is high: 22600$ (15600 euro) ... So, if in Usa the price in toyota of a new supra gearbox is only 6000$... i'll buy there. May I contact the usa toyota?