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Old 09-30-2010, 08:33 PM   #1
rjSupra
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Default Auto Supra Coolant hose pressure and return leak to oil pan and filter area?

Hi all:

The quick: have two leaking coolant lines, sprayed all over the ground after two over heat cycles. Coolant lines (small diameter metal) come from two parts of main rad, and then run to above the screw in oil filter and the oil pan to car. If I squeeze the rubber lines that connect from the steel lines, coolant fluid (not oil) oozes out the actual sides of the hose not far from the clamp. Also from under clamp too. Rad empty to the eye from above, again (sigh).
So, dumb question. My cars have always been manual and 'lower' tech. I did not even know oil can be 'liquid cooled' by coolant .(?) Is that what these lines are, and does it seem that replacing the rubber lines should solve my poor cars overheating problem and coolant loss? Previous owner know nothing about HG or if replaced, but oil has always been clear and clean, no smoke ever even on startup. I'll try to dig this up here, but what are those lines called to get the parts? Is the cheapie Autozone or Napa or whatever fine to replace those with? Do steel or steel braided cable exist for them and is that important to use those or is stock or OEM replacement rubber just fine? THANKS!

One other item: I read here about the main fan that's on the alt belt. Someone stated it should not turn free at all shut off, and if so, a bearing in the fan or something is trashed and that will wreak havoc on cooling the rad? True? My fan spins freely right now with my hand, very freely. Is this a problem?


More gory details below for those needing more back ground.

I love this forum. New to it. I love my new (older) Supra.
I have a 130K Supra that sat in a barn mostly for 5 years - never registered or insured. It was allegedly driven 'often' up and down a private road to keep her moving by previous owner. Not too sure about that but could have been. The batt from 2007 was still strong and holding a charge for months sitting when I trickle charged it so who knows, maybe they were.

I bought her and she sat for 10 months. I put her on the road 10 days ago. Aside from lack of power, and a very cranky spot at 48 to 53 mph in Over Drive at low rpms (the car would shake, jiggle and wiggle - I thought it was just a loose frame feel due to the Targa but realized later that was not it). I've always been a hard top guy (sadly) until I got her. But the shake disappears at high and low speeds and higher revs on the motor in that bad zone.

Anyway, the car drove pretty smooth at 80mph, even had it up to 100. Drove her gently though about 500 miles, no trouble except for belching out PS fluid.

She started fine every time for a week. Drove her on hwy 60 miles at speed to work and then drove back 10 miles at speed. Next day battery is dead and not even close to enough juice to start. (Batt or Alt - will solve that later).

After a jump, she was extra low powered and cranky, on Hwy a few miles and then stupid stop n go rush hr BS at 6am. Maybe 70 degrees temp out (NE region). After running really poorly, I reved the motor to change the low rpms to 4k or maybe 4.5K or so. Within seconds I smell coolant. Then burning coolant. Within 2 minutes my car temp is almost at the red (she always ran at 35-40% on gauge the whole prior week). I panic and exit hwy, sit through two stupid lights and ditch her in city garage for 2 days while I work and before I can get my hands back on her. Dry radiator, put in a gallon of mixed ethylene glycol coolant and distilled, and limp her (with another jump) out of garage and 10 miles north in city. Get lost, drive around at city speeds with traffic lights in a full panic at this point. Finally get on hwy after 25 minutes (with heater on full blast in case this whole drive), and then after 2 miles at 70mph she overheats again. This time after pulling off hwy (within 60 seconds I shut her down) I finally notice a trail of coolant. Cool her off 1 hr, refill another gallon and drive her 4 miles to family member house (thank goodness the lived there), and shut her down, like a poor beached whale. She's angry and spitting coolant all over the ground.
Heavy drips / pour from two small gauge lines. Not the steel parts, the clamped flexible hose parts.
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Last edited by rjSupra; 09-30-2010 at 08:46 PM. Reason: mis spelling
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:19 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjSupra View Post
Hi all:

The quick: have two leaking coolant lines, sprayed all over the ground after two over heat cycles. Coolant lines (small diameter metal) come from two parts of main rad, and then run to above the screw in oil filter and the oil pan to car. If I squeeze the rubber lines that connect from the steel lines, coolant fluid (not oil) oozes out the actual sides of the hose not far from the clamp. Also from under clamp too. Rad empty to the eye from above, again (sigh).
So, dumb question. My cars have always been manual and 'lower' tech. I did not even know oil can be 'liquid cooled' by coolant .(?) Is that what these lines are, and does it seem that replacing the rubber lines should solve my poor cars overheating problem and coolant loss? Previous owner know nothing about HG or if replaced, but oil has always been clear and clean, no smoke ever even on startup. I'll try to dig this up here, but what are those lines called to get the parts? Is the cheapie Autozone or Napa or whatever fine to replace those with? Do steel or steel braided cable exist for them and is that important to use those or is stock or OEM replacement rubber just fine? THANKS
From your description, it sounds like the two small hose that run from the bottom of the rad to the auto box. They run behind the oil filter and along the bottom of the block, (just above the sump) towards the trany. (Not to be confused with the engine oil cooler hoses that run from the oil filter housing to the cooler/coolers and back to the sump) The two small hose from the bottom of the rad carry transmission fluid. Not exactly sure if the fluid is being cooled or heated. If these are the hose you’re referring to, then they should contain trany fluid not coolant.

Last edited by Bill UK; 10-03-2010 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:53 AM   #3
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Default I think I have the replacements lined up - no pun intended.

Thanks Bill or your input. Written descriptions written (poorly) by me can only go so far.
I am sure these are not the AT box hoses. Those are really narrow gauge metal, I think, lines. But those I got clearly ID-ed. These leakers I need to replace most definitely have coolant in them and leaking out, not AT fluid (I do know what each fluid looks and smells like).

So, a self update, they do seem to be oil cooler lines as called by the parts store people.
I am in the Northeast of the US.
Autozone, Pep Boys and VIP auto do not carry them. Pep Boys can special order them 3-5 days at $42 a line. Not going to do that.

Apparently they are 1/2" by 12" and need to withstand 250 degrees F temp and 125 psi min or they will melt or pop. Two of those stores tell me that Robbins Auto parts makes their own hose that is that spec and that I can buy by the length there. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to get there and verify they'll work tomorrow and Saturday when I install them.

Thanks again.
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Old 10-01-2010, 03:27 PM   #4
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Default not sure, but I think these are the parts name & part numbers

This has me a bit confused. Below, one hose is described in this forum as "the supply to the oil cooler and one on the passenger side (part no 32922A No 1) is the return to the auto box". Again, I feel extremely certain this is a short hose, that goes from a stock narrow metal black line leaving the bottom of the largest Rad. to an inlet just above the screw in oil filter (in that same molded housing), and the other one goes from another spot on the rad from the same diameter metal line to this hose to a banjo bolt in the housing on the main engine motor oil pan. Both lines are soaked with coolant - the green stuff. Not AT fluid or oil. The banjo bolt connection at the oil pan is dry and not leaking. So my question, could only one hose be leaking coolant on both hoses, but really one of them is full of regular oil?? What does "to the auto box" mean above? The automatic transmission right? It's not covered in AT fluid so I am stumped. I am 1 hr north of the car to get parts and can't really re-check in the engine bay today. Anyone have any thoughts?

Here's what I think they are below:

32921D
HOSE (FOR OIL COOLER INLET)

32922A
HOSE (FOR OIL COOLER OUTLET)


32921E
CLAMP, HOSE (FOR OIL COOLER) - need 4 of these to replace both hoses if anyone is interested.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:13 PM   #5
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Default sorry, I can't figure out, need help, coolant lines to oil filter housing and oil pan

Toy dealer parts guy says the parts I ID-ed above, and separate Toy numbers he ID-ed were oil lines that would be filled with oil NOT coolant. (ATM lines) The Toyota parts guy seemed very unknowledgeable and confused. He did not know what parts they were or what I needed anyway.

Toyota dealer does not carry these parts in NH. Robbins does not carry these lines but said they might be able to machine a hose that would withstand 250 F temp and 125 psi for $10 to $20 each depending on what I bring in.

I am totally perplexed. Either there is something north in the engine that is pouring coolant onto these lines making it look like one or both lines are leaking when somehow they are not (since allegedly they are full of oil not coolant), or everyone is confused about the part I need, or either one coolant line is spraying on both hoses or both are leaking and are in fact some mystery coolant lines that cannot be identified. They run parallel under the motor for a short run and that's where they are both soaked and dripping. Again, this is 100% coolant, my motor oil is normal and not leaking, my AT fluid level is perfect, not leaking and clear (red). This is green coolant, and I have a very substantial coolant leak with it pouring out of my poor overheated car all over the street. I am not with the car and trying to source out parts an hour from it to get it back home to do better diagnostics on it (it has two other problems unrelated - alt or batt is shot, and PS fluid leaks out to empty in 2 days leaving me with a groaning steering). ANY help at all would be certainly appreciated! I can answer any questions for clarification all day long and tonight too!
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:53 PM   #6
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Default Feeling dumber now, Bill UK, you were right, but still clueless in NH

Bill (et all).
I am pretty sure you were right and I feel foolish.
It does in fact seem it is and oil feed and return line that goes to the rad to cool the oil. So it would be oil leaking. It's not oil leaking so I guess those lines have no leak.

There IS however some damn thing leaking / spraying coolant all over those hoses exactly where they meet and are bolted in parallel together at a low point under the engine. They are covered in coolant and I have absolutely no idea how the coolant soaked them and poured down I guess onto them and the ground. These lines were pouring fluid down off them after I shut down the motor and pooling all over the street.

All the radiators are dry, the leads from them are dry, not dripping, wet, leaking etc etc... The water pump is dry and not leaking. I am going to keep researching this online since I can't get to my car until tomorrow what could be causing it, but I am really stumped here. If anyone has a suggestion how I could be losing 1 gallon + of coolant in 20 minutes of driving above the area where the oil cooling lines come and go I would very much appreciate. Thanks in advance.

The lines soaked are absolutely ID-ed by me now that I found this pic in the TSRM. It's labeled as the "No. 1 Oil cooler hose" and the "No. 2 Oil cooler hose" and these unrelated hoses are drenched in coolant on the outside only I guess. Can't be coming from the inside.
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:55 PM   #7
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Default need help with unknown coolant leak still

Question:

If for some reason I have the dreaded BHG, could I be leaking / oozing mostly coolant and an oil mix out of these above named oil cooler lines?
I am not blowing smoke of any kind, my oil on the dipstick looks perfect colored - no milkiness, my coolant loss is visually external of the motor and pouring to the ground from somewhere. Before the big leak and then overheating, the motor warmed quickly to about 40% on the dash temp gauge and stayed there. My oil pressure was anywhere from 2 lbs at idle to maybe 20-30 lbs at speed. This Supra mostly smells like an 'old car' - like a little oil drips being burned on the side of the motor etc... It actually smells and runs like my friends old '67 Buick Skylark. Very similar, which probably isn't a ringing endorsement for the mechanic integrity of this 130K Supra. But it smelled like this, even stronger, after sitting 10 months and for the week before I developed or noticed this now sizable coolant leak.

Are there any other areas that I simply can't see from above the car looking down, or below the car looking up when it was on jack stands where a substantial coolant leak could be pouring down what seems to drain out dead center of the motor and onto the oil cooler lines making me think they were the culprit before and full of coolant only? (That was a false assumption / conclusion I made after seeing coolant all over those hoses).
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Last edited by rjSupra; 10-01-2010 at 10:57 PM. Reason: clarifying temp better
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Old 10-03-2010, 12:08 PM   #8
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Photo`s courtesy of SupraForums.com, the photos are a mirror image, what you see on the left is actually on the right. (or is it just me with a dizzy head) The obvious location from your description would be the bottom hose.




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Old 10-03-2010, 02:39 PM   #9
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Default excellent aid, still mystery leak persists

Bill UK:

Thank you again! Excellent visual. I'll use this as a reference for future repairs as well.
I spent 4 hrs yesterday over and under the car thoroughly.
This leak is almost impossible to locate. I had to even top up with distilled water, and intentional heat the car to make it spill more coolant to help. Which required a jump to even run it (my batt charged for 2.5 days at trickle charge and does not have enough juice to start the car).

So, the Oil Cooler Lines are merely catching the drips from above it. That's the fact now. There almost no clearance above it to see anything from any angle.

But (perhaps separately) I have determined that my alternator is not a problem, the battery is bad.
My water pump is not leaking at all and probably fine . The source of the leak is well above the oil cooler lines, and it seems to be right about where the "Toyota 19300-42010 Cam Position Sensors - 7MGTE" is or just the underside area of it (like a cm or two or at it's actual bottom). So now I am thinking it could be the gasket in the thermostat?? That's right next to it and could potentially be leaking coolant right? I will replace this today, the T stat and gasket just in case. Maybe it will allow me to see the area better. What else could be leaking up so high in the engine off to the left front (as looking at the motor standing in the front of the car? - or front passenger side of motor in other words).
There are what looks to be evaporated drip spots on the aluminum / metal exhaust manifold heat shield - high above the lines oil cooler lines at bottom of motor, dripping down higher up several lines / cables / hoses (tracing the leak like crumbs in an overgrown forest path). Does this make sense? I mean, the potential leak spot and hypothesis, not the fable allegory?

I can't believe how much time this has taken to find one stupid little leak. I will replace the T Stat, and then fill up fluids with plenty extra and drive the damn car out of there today on the hwy gently, with the heat on max heat inside the car - and maybe my roof off or wearing shorts come to think of it...)

Thanks for any help you can provide!
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:18 PM   #10
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This hose (in red) is just under the CPS, the blue part is a heatsheild.

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