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Old 02-22-2013, 01:16 PM   #11
pwpanas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyps307 View Post
There's supras running 1000+hp on stock internals on pump gas all day
Prove it. Name even ONE Mkiv Supra Turbo that has this setup right now, and I'll personal get in touch with him/her to verify. If you won't or can't then please STFU because this is VERY BAD advice. Will you buy Mmeyer183 his new engine when he trys this and his #6 cylinder starts blowing large, dense clouds of bluish white smoke out his tailpipe?

Where are you getting this *bad* information? Please let me know so that I can set him/her straight too. Let me set you straight: There is no 3L 2jz-gte Supra on earth pushing 1000hp with only 93 (R+M)/2 octane fuel. Period.

Without water/meth injection, 1000hp on pump gas using a 3L 2jz-gte is completely impracticable. With an unlimited budget and no care for power:weight ratio, sure it's theoretically possible...for example, you could try rig up a system that cools the charge-air with liquid nitrogen. If you got the intake air cold enough (I'd guess the air would need to be maintained at about -150 degrees F during full boost), you *might* avoid detonation with 1000hp and pump gas using a 3L 2jz-GTE. Oh, don't forget that at -150 degrees F, the air (and therefore intake O2) would be MUCH more dense, so the air-fuel mix would need to be tuned appropriately to compensate.

Mmeyer183, if you're not on an unlimited budget, and/or you don't want to waste months experimenting and replacing expensive engine parts, make it easy on yourself and simply ignore Sonyps307's post.
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Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

Last edited by pwpanas; 02-28-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyps307 View Post
With a fuel system upgrade and bigger turbo he can make more then 600hp on pump gas it's been done plenty of times.
600hp=510rwhp (6spd), right? There's only 2 ways (without meth injection):
.
1) Destroy the engine - not immediately, but every time you boost to 510rwhp, it detonates, which takes chunks of tiny metal out of the pistons and head. What do you think happens to these tiny chunks? They ruin the cylinder bores, valve seats, and the turbo's turbine blades. Of course, it depends how often you take it up to 510rwhp, and how long you hold it there when you do, but regardless you're looking at a new/rebuilt 2jz-gte going this route (probably sooner and not later, relatively speaking).
.
2) Run a turbo so big that the lag makes the Supra practically undriveable. Huge turbos (80+mm inducer) generate very low levels of additional heat at low boost levels. They also lag like crazy... eg. with no boost whatsoever under 5500 rpm. Sure you can hit 510rwhp with a setup like this on pump gas, but who one earth would ever want to drive it? Sure, the huge turbo could be spooled with nitrous, but if you're going to that trouble, why not just put a meth injection system in, together with a more reasonably-sized turbo?
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Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

Last edited by pwpanas; 02-23-2013 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warmkop View Post
Don't believe that. you can't boost that much with pump fuel it will destroy the engine
Agreed 100%

Mmeyer183, ask Sonyps307 if he'll pay for your engine if you try that setup and it doesn't work out for the best. My guess is Sonyps307 runs for the hills...because he 1) has no idea what he's talking about, and therefore 2) won't stand behind his advice.
__________________
Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

Last edited by pwpanas; 02-22-2013 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmeyer183 View Post
…Im looking for … around 600 rwhp...I have a neighbor who is pretty good with cars and I have been talking to him about it. Basically to reiterate what he said, "you can easily get 50-100 extra hp off a stock with simple modifications. Anything past that, you need to start upgrading internals.
I agree with warmkop – you’re neighbor is completely full of it. Obviously he knows nothing about the 2jz-gte – the oem 2jz-gte internals are very reliable up to 1000hp (of course, using race fuel and high boost from a large single turbo and large fuel injectors).

However, your neighbor was correct that you can get about 100 extra hp off stock with simple modifications. Would you consider this as a starting point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmeyer183 View Post
…You will need tochange out the rear axel…
Wrong. By saying this your neighbor proves he not only is ignorant about the 2jz-gte, he’s ignorant about the Mkiv Supra Turbo as a whole. The oem rear axles are good to over 1200rwhp. Yes. That is not a typo. 1200rwhp. Really. Let me know if you’d like me to help …um… educate your neighbor about the legendary Toyota Supra Turbo.
J

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmeyer183 View Post
…different intack plenums…
For 600rwhp (6spd), your neighbor is also NOT correct about this. The oem intake plenum is good to about 750rwhp (translation 882hp at the crank. Again – Really and 100% for sure.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmeyer183 View Post
…throttle body…
For 600rwhp (6spd), your neighbor is also NOT correct about this. The oem throttle body is also good to about 750rwhp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmeyer183 View Post
…new injectors, fuel rails, fuel pressure regulators…
For 600rwhp (6spd), your neighbor actually IS partially correct about this. The oem fuel system is only good to about 525rwhp. However, the 2jz-gte only has ONE fuel rail, and ONE fuel pressure regulator.
J Also, these are not the only components that need to be replaced for 600rwhp. For 600rwhp you would need (As warmkop mentioned) either a complete aftermarket fuel system (which includes these items and many other items that are required) –OR- a large methanol injection system that will not only supply charge-air cooling, it will also supply about 75rwhp of additional fuel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmeyer183 View Post
…different clutch…
Agreed. (Finally!) Score one for the neighbor. The oem 2jz-gte clutch is only long-term-reliable up to about 400rwhp. What’s that - 10 completely wrong, and only 1 right so far?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmeyer183 View Post
…flywheels…
Wrong. The oem flywheel is fine up to 750rwhp or so, together with an appropriate clutch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmeyer183 View Post
…driveshaft…
Wrong. The oem driveshaft is fine up to 1000hp, as long as you don’t try to drag race it with R-spec roadrace tires. ...and even then, the real problem is the subframe bushings and not the driveshaft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmeyer183 View Post
…pistons and rods…
Again, he’s completely full of crap here…however, he’s not nearly as far off base as the Sonyps307 dude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmeyer183 View Post
…spark plugs, etc..." his list went on, but he says with these mods you can easily handle 800 hp if not more...
WELL he’s partly correct because there actually is a set of mods that can get you to 800hp and much more if you want…HOWEVER that list of mods is definitely NOT the list he gave you. Instead, start with warmkop's list, and let us know if you have any questions.


Oh, last but not least you said:
Quote:
Now I am perfectly happy with how it is and how it drives since it will be a daily driver
...please note that in general, the more you modify it the less reliable and the less comfortable it will become. Modifications are essentially a partial reengineering an entire (currently-working-well) mechanical system. Well-paid and well-qualified automotive engineers from Toyota designed everything in the Mkiv Supra Turbo to work together as-is. If you mess with one thing it can affect dozens of other parts of the system. Small modifications will likely only have a small overall impact. More extensive modifications definitely will have a more extensive overall impact. Put another way, you can get a "1001 hp" Bugatti Veyron from the factory, where the entire car is already properly engineered to manage that 1001hp...but it's a $1M+ car. Although some of that price goes towards profit, most of it actually goes towards covering engineering costs and materials. As you begin to modify your Toyota Supra Turbo, please keep all of this in mind.
__________________
Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

Last edited by pwpanas; 02-22-2013 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:52 PM   #15
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All I said was there is supra running 1000hp+ on pump gas and u can get 600hp with a bigger turbo and more fuel. Of course he will need things like cams, head work, meth injection, bigger fuel injectors, bigger turbo, ecu, etc. what I was getting at was that the 2jz stock can take 1000hp can it not?

Last edited by pwpanas; 02-22-2013 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:19 PM   #16
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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sonyps307 View Post
    All I said was there is supra running 1000hp+ on pump gas...
    ...There is NOT any Mkiv Supra Turbo with a 3L 2jz-gte running 1000hp+ on pump gas. Prove it if you think I'm wrong. Post the information about that Supra right here, in this thread.
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sonyps307 View Post
    All I said was ... u can get 600hp with a bigger turbo and more fuel...
    Actually, what you posted was this:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sonyps307 View Post
    With a fuel system upgrade and bigger turbo he can make more then 600hp on pump gas it's been done plenty of times.
    ...which is absolutely NOT accurate or practical (see my post above for an explanation)...and therefore it is simply more of your bad advice.
  3. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sonyps307 View Post
    ...Of course he will need things like ..., meth injection...
    You did NOT mention anything about "meth injection" in ANY of your prior posts. If you're running meth injection, you're NOT only running pump gas. Warmkop told Mmeyer183 that you were wrong right here...and here...FOUR DAYS AGO!!!...and you still didn't do anything to fix/retract your misinformative posts, or post anything new to clarify your obviously-bad advice, until I called you out on it today.
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sonyps307 View Post
    ...Of course he will need things like cams, head work...
    You do NOT need aftermarket cams or any head work to make 600hp with an oem 2jz-gte. You also do NOT need aftermarket cams or head work to make 600rwhp with an Mkiv Supra Turbo 3L 2jz-gte. This is yet more misinformation and bad advice that you just posted ... that could also result in Mmeyer183 wasting even more $$$ on unnecessary modifications.

    Your feeble attempts to dig yourself out of this hole are only making the hole deeper. You may (or may not) actually know a thing or two about base-model 7mge MkIII's (i.e non-turbo / 'normally aspirated'), but you obviously have a LOT to learn about the 2jz-gTe. Maybe it's time to quit trying to pretend you know anything about this topic, and just sit back and read and ASK questions so you can learn something first.
  5. Quote:
    ...what I was getting at was that the 2jz stock can take 1000hp can it not...
    Don't try to change the subject. Your prior posts were all about what can be done "on pump gas" alone.
  6. Sonyps307 (again) STOP posting lies and bad advice. This isn't about anyone getting upset. This is about you posting advice that...if followed...would waste the time and money of the unfortunate people who might actually believe your lies and follow your misleading advice. Bad advice in a forum like this could even result in injury or loss of life. What if Mmeyers183 followed your idiotic advice to build a 1000hp with pump gas, and the resulting fuel detonations blew chunks of piston into the crankcase...which in turn locked up his engine while drag racing? Would you even care that your bad advice could lead to his injuries and wrecked Supra?
    Vehicle modification is not an area where guesswork by ignorant amateurs can be tolerated. Give that some thought.
  7. Sonyps307, unless you can produce evidence of this 2jz-gte Supra that by some miracle is actually "running 1000+hp ... on pump gas all day", do not post any more in this thread. If you post anything other than direct, specific information about that magic 1000hp+ pump gas 3L Supra in this thread, I will immediately delete your post from this thread AND suspend your membership in this forum. Your posts have already made it crystal-clear that you have absolutely no information of value to contribute to this thread. Consider this your final warning regarding your posting of misinformation.
.
.
Last but not least, Mmeyers183 - apologies for the digression. Please refer to my previous on-topic response, and let us know if you have any follow-up questions.
__________________
Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

Last edited by pwpanas; 05-11-2013 at 08:28 PM.
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