New member; New mk3; New concerns..

[Krem]

Ok, well, neither are new... I've been roaming this earth for 30 yrs now and the 87 mk3 Supra isn't too far behind... however, she's new to me, and I'm new to you all...

Background -
Anywho, have had her for a couple of weeks now. Picked her up for just less than $2k w/ a great body (can use paint, but not necessary priority; same for window tint) and great internals too... Other than a small crack on the dash and a couple rubber stopper's/grommet's beginning to crack under heat stress (hey, this is Vegas, I've seen a lot worse for 22 yr old cars), her interior is good too. First week I registered her, just this weekend I got the first oil change done at my buddy's Jiffy Lube..

(Tangent)
Went with the high mileage non-synthetic oil for the 140k engine, which I'm guessing was rebuilt as the head gasket is still good, the headers are even wrapped and the tranny was just rebuilt and looks brand new.

Background (con't) -
My buddy concurred I got a great deal and said only thing he found wrong was front tires were bare on the inner edge and prob a result of poor alignment. Got the two tires replaced as the inner edges lacked thread all together and was sent to a mechanic to do the alignment. The mechanics complimented the quality and condition of the '87 as "one of the better one's we've seen come through here", to which I replied: "That means a lot to me as I got her a couple of weeks ago." (Big mistake I think). Seems like after that was said, they tried to take me to the cleaners.. despite my intentions of swapping the engine if and when it's days are done and doing a manual trans swap at that time, I was still treated like a woman driver that didn't know the first thing about her car.

I was told my bushings were worn and cracking, and the control arms were bad and wouldn't hold the bushings in place... so I needed to replace control arms and bushings (not just bushings) before they'd even do my alignment... also mentioned I needed new serpentine belts, when I can clearly see the manufacturer's label on some of them.. I was even told I have a split oil pan gasket and they gave me a 6hr labor quote. In my research, I've come to the conclusion that is accurate as the engine must be pulled or dropped to repair the oil pan gasket... but the reason I find that hard to swallow is I had the oil change done previously that morning... wouldn't that be something they'd look for, or at least notice, during the oil change? I want to rule the mechanics out as either trying to take advantage of any ignorance I may possess or as fact someone liked the car and inflated repair costs in hope I'd sell my "lemon" (which I know for a fact she's not) to them.

My oil gauge still baffles me, but acts consistant. I'm not sure if it's just me that needs to learn how to read it, a sensor that needs to be replaced, or if there really is that split in the oil pan gasket (which brings me back to wondering why it wasn't caught in the Oil change?).. When I start her up, she'll go up to about 20 and build up to 40lbs within a minute or two, but the more I drive, seems the pressure lowers, coming to about 10lbs at idle... this was the case with the previous oil and the high mileage oil I just put in... The car starts up great, no smoke from exhaust or under hood, I don't even have any leaks from her other than the condesor dripping water from the AC... Also found in my research of oil pan gaskets on the mk3 supra, I guess a fit in gasket plug seems to be the cost effective solution... could it be there was an oil pan gasket split and the split piece was left hanging out the front rather than removed when the split/hole/crack was filled in and this issue is already fixed, just visible evidence remains?

Any thoughts/opinions/comments/suggestions? (I'll be getting pix up on the web w/in the week, so if any one wants/needs to see visuals, please let me know.)

[Krem]

lmao... I guess none of the above applies... or maybe it does and I'm just discouraged/disappointed.. She was running soo well... sounded good, drove good with slight sluggish auto tranny on norm. setting.. ran ~700 RPMs at idle...

Yesterday I could hear a clicking noise (sounded like an electric circuit click, or those small pet treat clickers) coming from the center of the engine bay.. Not sure yet what's what under the hood, and I intend to learn as I go, but I believe it's the master throttle control unit? (It sits mounted on the unit that connects the cold air intake to the intake manifold?)

Today I make a right turn on my way to work and I could feel the performance loss... I gave her gas to accellerate out of the turn and she didn't wanna go. Thinking she stalled, I removed my foot from the gas, at which point she did stall.. I can get her to turn over and run... IF (and only if) I keep the gas pedal floored, and even then she sputters at ~600rpm.. once I take my foot of the gas, she stalls out.

Not sure what to make of it, and atm, too broke to tow her to a shop for diagnoses I can't afford... let alone have them perform the repairs necessary.. so, I can spit out some of my own ideas, but I'm pretty entry level in mechanics.. any other insight would be appreciative. Would just like to know what it might possibly be so I can prepare for the repairs (financially)..

First thing to my mind was the BHG... since they're a common problem w/ the 7mge and would probably hit my pocket book for the most cost.. and thinking the low RPMs could be result of loss of compression?? But it's not like I punched the gas on the turn... it was a normal, everyday drive to work, kinda turn... not a spin my wheels and see if I can drift deal...

Second thing to mind was timing belt... but I'm not backfiring, just running very low rpm when I go FOT... which brings me to..

Third thing to mind was master throttle control... since it sounded like it was clicking yesterday, and today FOT seems to barely register anything.

Fourth thing to mind was fuel pump or possibly fuel injectors...

Any idea's/help would be greatly appreciated...


Update: JIC it might make a difference...
After letting her sit for about 90 min, I did attempt to start her up to see what would happen... no longer had to do FOT to keep her idle... but when I took my foot off the gas pedal completely, she'd sputter at about 400 rpm... vibrating the entire car and shaking everything in the engine bay :\. So I'm leaning more towards a mixture problem than compression, but I've still got a lot to learn, and I know the knowledge exists here, when someone will share it is a whole nuther topic..

[btwilson86]

Sounds like your timing could be off. Little bit of worked involved to check this, but if you spend a little time to get the upper timing cover off, use a 19mm socket and rotate the engine over until the timing mark on the crankshaft meets the "0" on the lower timing plate. If your timing is good, every other time the crank mark hits "0" the little mark on the cam gears will line up with the vertical marks on the plate behind the cam gears.

Keep in mind that wont check ignition timing. Ignition timing is set by the distributor (on N.A models) or the cam position sensor (on turbo models). Both of which will require the use of a timing light to check. Basic timing lights are relatively inexpensive, and are fairly simple to use. Adjustment of the distributor or CPS is a matter of loosening one screw and rotating the assembly.

Now that I think of it, you might wanna just see if yours is lose. Grab a hold of it and see it you can move it by hand, if so that could have slipped causing your issue.

[Krem]

Thanks for the advice, I'll be checking the distributor when I get home. A very similar thought even crossed my mind last night when I was reminded of an ex that had a rotor that would always slip out inside the cap.. her car would sputter and stall out, but she'd never be able to start her back up... thus I dismissed it.. But you make much sense, if that cap is turned and that rotor isn't firing the cylinders correctly, I might be able to rough idle, but she wouldn't be street worthy... which seems to be the case. Thanks again, will post results later this evening.

edit:
Sux not having net all weekend... tried to tow her up to autozone and make use of their diagnostic systems... but once we got there, was told it's only done on cars from '96 to current. Joy... so one guy comes out to take a look, at this time she'll start up and idle about 200-300 rpm... FOT doesn't seem to make a difference, so the guy blames the TPS. After getting a new TPS for $105, install it, no fix. . Luckily they refunded the money for the new part. Next guy came out to take a look... still able to turn her over, but still very low idle and even harder vibration throughout the car now when she does idle. The guy claims he thinks I'm getting fuel and no spark... claiming the engine is running by compressions (like a diesel engine would)... this seems a bit strange to me, but wth, I know I don't know as much as I'd like to so I'm in no place to call him out on it. After he can't figure it out, two more guys come out (seperately, then later together). Both felt the fuel system is the cultprit explaining: "You have spark, cause she starts and runs, if you didn't have spark, you'd just be turning her over." I was explained about the pressure requirements behind opening the fuel injectors and how a clogged filter or bad pump could cause this issue... On a side note, the guys who blame my fuel system did test for spark from the sparkplug wire and confirmed there is spark. However, said plugs barely (if at all) seat on or around the top of the spark plug... is this normal? or should I look at getting some deeper sleeved wires?

[Krem]

Update:

Still broke, and dead in my parking lot...

Distributor and cap were both stationary and clean... rotor was good, even tested for spark w/ screwdriver and it's gettin it.. The car, however, seems to be degrading...

Before I'd be able to at least get her to idle just above stalling out all on her own.. she'd run at a couple hundred RPMs and die out in about 8-10 seconds... if I tried starting her again after that, I'd have problems keeping her running...

Now I can't get her to start her idle even tho she comes soo close. She still sounds strong when turning the engine over, but there's just no umpf there... going FoT makes absolutely NO difference at all now what so ever..

Sooo... I'm actually leaning towards fuel system? The pump kinda reminds me of what a dead battery does where if you leave your camera off for a couple hours, you can come back and snap one or two more pictures.. Also, I've swapped out the TPS, with no luck... so I'm thinking the pump is pushing whatever fuel it can, but it's still not enough to open my injectors...

Does this sound probable? Anything I should check before filter and pump? I checked the fuse and that seems good... which makes sense cause the pump does try to work... it just fizzles out (or so I think)

[86.5 7MGE]

I would check your plugs, ignition coil, ignitor, and also, try a possiblity of clogged injectors as well, before fuel pump and filter they are a pain to get to since they are located in the gas tank it's self and require you to drop it. Let us know if these things don't work.

[86.5 7MGE]

I was also just now thinking that it could be a problem with your O2 sensor, MAF sensor, and or vaccum lines. I had low idle and rough running when I had a vaccum leak between my intake and MAF sensor.

[btwilson86]

You can check the fuel pump operation with a paper clip in the diagnostic box under the hood. Connect the "PB" (positive battery) terminal with the "FP" (fuel pump) terminal. You should have gas rushing to your fuel rail if your pump is good.

[btwilson86]

Sorry, I've been trying to remember which it is as I don't have access to my car right now... It either says "pB" or "+B" for the positive battery terminal

[Krem]

Thanks for the inputs... I'll give the fuel pump diagnotics idea a try, but mainly cause I feel if it were MAF, o2 sensor, ignition coil or ignitor, the car would stay level at the same RPM.. but I'm sure I don't know what I'm talking about here... all I can do is apply logic to my thought process as I lack mechanical expertise.

I keep hearing the fuel tank is in the trunk, and I've also heard it's accessible from the trunk... in this img, what is the thing in the hole, covered by the small plate w/ 3 screws? I've got two plugs to it... so I thought it has better chance of being a pump than a filter... but for all I know, it could just be the float sensor..

Finally, when I try that diag trick... is it safe to just plug the paper clip directly? or do I need to unplug the battery, connect, replug to test and then d/c battery before I remove pin? Tho, I guess I shouldn't ask at all as it's never wrong to be safe and cautious... Also, how will I know if there's fuel flowing or not? I doubt I'll see anything, I can't even visually find my fuel rail yet even.. should I be hearing the gas flowing? or is this something I have to pull a line and drop into a bucket for?