|
5m-ge future engine mods?
Hey guys just trying to plan out my engine mods for the next year and maybe get some feed back? this is what I've come up with so far im totally new to the tuning world so help would be great!
Engine: Clevite crank bearings eagle rods JE pistons arp bolt kit cylinder head?? valves? header? non turbo (plan on putting 3'' exhaust on it) polished intake/exhaust ports cold air intake (of coarse!) Fuel system: 255cc walbro fuel pump 300cc walbro fuel injectors Suspension: |
the pistons and rods will be a good upgrade, def get the rotating assembly balanced professionally, itll smoothe it out and rev a bit easier/more too.
check the cyl head out and see what needs replaced ( guides, seats ground etc.) then do a small diy pnp. a set of stock valves will be fine, spring upgrade (if there is one for the 5m?) headers help alot, you wont see it on a dyno necessarily, but it makes for good drivability. i think you mean a 255 lph fuel pump. and swapping in a set of cleaned 7m injectors would be more than enough, they spec out at about 310cc i believe. what are you gonna use for EMS? stock or aftermarket? sounds like a solid plan, should be good. |
Quote:
forum seems a little dead on the mk2 side of things.... |
heck yea, im normally on the mk3 side, but ive noticed the mk2 is a lil slow as well so i jump over and see if theres anything happenin haha.
yea, as for ems, youve got alot of choices. im goin with Mega Squirt, then theres a slough of other ones. ms is nice and affordable, even if fully assembled. super cheap if you can solder. neway, an aftermarket EMS will allow you to take full advantage of all your upgrades, and get rid of the crappy, conservative stock tune. just be sure whoever tunes it, you or a shop, knows what they are doing. you can eff up a motor quick if you screw up a tune. start pig-rich with fuel and conservative timing, then work your way up from there. |
Cheap would be nice! haha theres only 2 performance shops in my city that I know of and one doesnt even have a dyno their pretty much ricer central. I wouldnt know how to tune it unless someone showed me so I'd just take it to the best shop I could find.
|
yea, check them out. they have alot of online support, and you can download their tuning software for free onto the laptop you use for tuning.
its best to find a shop with a dyno when you get it tuned. even if they are a ways away. a shop without a dyno that is "tuner central" wouldnt be my first choice at all. anyway, good luck with it and keep updating! |
Thanks I sure will, and thanks for your help again. You've given me some advise I definitely needed.
|
:bigthumb:
|
I did this back in the late 80's! The same still applies.
1. First, lighten your car as much as possible; AC compressor, heat shields, exhaust, etc. 2. Header back exhaust (not sure who makes headers now, but they are out there). don't buy an exhaust system - have a muffler shop do one for you - I used 2.5" pipe; get a really good free flow muffler. 3. Make sure you port match your head - intake and exhaust sides - to your header and intake manifolds and polish. This is important. 4. Ditch the fan, go electric, makes a difference on high rpms. 5. I never saw a difference with aftermarket coils and wires, but it never hurts. Indexing the spark plugs made a difference. 6. Build a new air intake hose assembly. Cut a hole out under the current air filter housing and run a hose down that faces forward under the lower spoiler - poor mans ram air or do a hood pop-up. replacing the intake from the airbox to the throttle valve - the resonator sucks. 7. Polish air meter box sharp edges and throttle body. There is an aftermarket TB you can get for the intake that is a bit larger. 8. Go custom pistons - .120 over to 3 liters and 10:1 compression (or more). factory rods are fine. 9. Valve springs are weak, I used shims to tigthen mine up - worked great. 10. Cams - not sure if you can still get reground cams (and according lash shims), but you can also order Japanese market cams. I did all of this, plus suspension. I don't know what horsepower I got, but it was a fast as the late 80's V8 mustangs and handled much better. If I was going to do it again? I'd probably drop in an American high rev, high HP, low/med torque small block. |
cant wait to see when its done!!
:bigthumb::bigthumb: |
Thanx for all the help guys! glad to see the forum a little more active. I'm just working on the brakes now then getting the car painted over the winter. I've been looking for after market calipers but was told there are none, anyone know what I can swap with? I got rotors and bearings but need calipers.
Also sorry for the late reply been working on the oil rigs so im not home much anymore. |
Quote:
|
Electric vs Mechanical Fans
Hi,
I used to work as a tech at a Dodge dealership (haha, I agree - except for Dodges from right now and the ones from '64-'72). Anyway, a tuning situation once came up and we were all divided about the fan issue. In my own research I found many many articles on the internet showing that an electric fan will nearly rob as much power as a clutch type mechanical one. Think about it, there's no such thing as free power, so to spin that fan, the alternator has to be robbing more hp to feed more electricity to the fan motor. Even if no power were lost going from mechanical => electric => mechanical power again the amount of power needed to spin a fan should remain the same. You may gain a few hp, like one or two (and that only well below the power band for the 5M), and it might improve your mph some... but I personally don't think it's worth the time, effort & jury rigging. Either way though, no fan of either type can push as much air over the engine as traveling even at 15 ~20 mph can do, and electric fans cut out before that speed, and mechanical fans have clutches that slip out before 3,000 rpm (meaning a mechanical fan cannot steal hp when your engine is running over 3,000 rpm, unless the clutch is stuck), so it's kind of half dozen one way, half dozen the other ... IMHO Anyway, this is my first post - I'm hoping to get a like new '85 Celica Supra in the coming weeks! It's been a while since I had a sports car so seeing the tuning ideas are welcome! |
Ls1
I would also caution against the LS1, simply because changing the engine will change where the car's center of gravity is, and the height of that center of gravity.
... and you'll have to upgrade the front suspension for the extra weight. You'll be sacrificing nimbleness for straight line speed... ... and we'll have one less member to talk about 5m tuning with... :( |
what is weight difference between the ls1 and 5mge??
engine is about 300 and w58 is around 90 dry. http://www3.sympatico.ca/dean.anderson4/weights.html 1uz is about 390 i think. ls1 is about the same i think a little heavier. |
lots of goodies on this site.
diff rebuilds http://rabidchimp.com/mkii-supra-82-...train.html?p=1 2mm oversiezed TB http://rabidchimp.com/mkii-supra-82-...ttle-body.html intakes http://rabidchimp.com/mkii-supra-82-...take-pipe.html lots of stuff you may liek for the 5m. he even sells 6mge hes an approved vendor on celicasupra.com |
Quote:
|
it all depends on what kinda power you want. LS motors give great power and do really way much more than a 7m.
there will be a crap ton of low end tq with a v8, and with the v8, i think the center of gravity will actually be lower, which would be a good thing. im more in favor of keeping the 5m tho, as im a fan of keeping them brand specific. if i get the chance, i want to tryin and build a hopped up 5m sometime. |
Quote:
the drag from the alternator is minimal. an alternator doesnt actually create more resistance on the engine if more power is required. the brushes will wear faster and the alternator will be stressed, heating up and potentially failing. we replaced my freinds 06 f150 fan/clutch assembly with an electric (yes it was a lil mad max-ish) and even with it redneck engineered, hes seeing 1.4 mpg better and his 0-60 time dropped .6 seconds. off the line you can definitely feel it. mechanical fans have an actual drag on the motor. it draws 18 amps at full load, and he only needs the fan sitting in traffic for over 30 min. winter time he doesnt use it at all. keeps a constant 194* coolant temp. id say its worth it, especially if you fork it for a set of flexalites or cooltecs etc. |
Faraday's law and Lenz's law... any generator requires much more power the greater the load placed upon it. There's no escaping it and your friend hasn't discovered a new kind of physics. All car electronics are powered by the alternator unless the alternator is too small (otherwise you'd have a dead battery all the time).... even if that weren't the case, when do you expect the battery to get charged? You can pull the battery on a running car and drive all day (with a CEL on modern cars but it'll still run); You can't pull the alternator and get more than an hour with an awesome battery.
The upside to electric is that the turn completely off when you're cool but then again at highway speeds air blows through with enough force that there really isn't any load on a mechanical fan. Lightweight flex fans are my preference. At high RPM not only does the fan slow but the blades flatten. EDIT: The thing both sides forget to consider in this whole debate is that an inefficient system can always be improved. An electric fan setup may indeed provide more power in lieu of an inefficient mechanical one and, vice versa, a more efficient mechanical fan may prove much better than an inefficient electric setup. Believe it or not fan technology has changed drastically in just the past 5 years, both mechanical and electric, anything's bound to be an improvement over the 20+ year old setup if implemented well. |
quite true, and i appreciate it.
didnt think he discovered some new way to save gas, improve mileage etc haha. all i know are the facts, what weve done and what our results are. |
Well little bit of an update, winters here and all I've basically got done is the hood primed and ready for repainting, and new wiper linkages that have yet to go in. Its 25 below here so my work is done for awhile seeing as I dont have a garage to work in. Hopefully be getting new stainless steel slotted rotors for Christmas just have to go back to the local shop and decide which ones I want. Found out my head gasket or head might be fucked, lots of moister coming out around the head and steam so I'll be looking at a new head gasket at the lest and my hatch is completely toasted rusted right through on the inside in several places so I some how need to afford a new hatch along with a full body paint after I tear her right down, plus hopefully only a head gasket. Another thing is I bought a 92 eclipse just this weekend for a steal from an auto wrecker, I'm a huge DSM fan so I'll be working on it first just needs a couple things and it'll be my DD till I fix my supra then the supra will be the DD and I'll be doing a rebuild on the Eclipse, if I can get all the parts I'll be swapping the 4G63 n/t for a 4G63 turbo set up which will give me (when I'm done) roughly 240whp (will get the head ported and polished, can also get a good aftermarket head gasket with upgraded 450cc injectors and a walbro 190lp) from the 135whp I have now; that's only if I can get a good turbo tranny from a GST model. The reason I'm putting the supra on hold is because the Eclipse is going to be the fastest build right now, I hope you guys aren't to mad. The supra will be worked on just not for awhile sadly. :-( I'll keep popping in from time to time to see whats up and if you guys want to still know how its going then I'll update here as well as on DSMtuners.com. Thanks for all of your guys get advise and wisdom I'll still need it and am always looking for more.
|
2 Attachment(s)
|
still interested myself in the supra build, and cant blame ya for pickin up an eclipse. been seriously lookin at gettin a gsx myself, just for shits n giggles.
i thought the 1g eclipse N/A motor was a 4g37? ive seen a few n/a 4g63's, but in 2g's. idk, shows how far my knowledge on dsm's is. good luck with the build tho, driven a few GST's and they are hard to keep the tires planted in! |
haha ya they are, my first DSM was a 92 talon TSI, never should have sold that car! Actually most Eclipse's/talons/lasers for the most part all came with 4G63's in them 89-93 had the 6 bolt flywheel (considered the best engine) and the 94-98 have the 7 bolt flywheels but better ECU's and turbo's for the most part, never heard of a 4G37. lol
If ya do pick up a GSX or something let me know! But ya I will be finishing the 5MGE build just not for probably a year or so till I can sell my new car off. |
ah nice nice. yea ive got a couple buddies over here with some decent talons and eclipses. problem is the cars are so rare and all these guys snag the good shit b4 i can get to it! haha.
the 4g37 is the 1.8l pos 4 banger they put in em. SOHC, gutless. lol. ill be lucky if i can find a gsx, even a gst, much less with a 6 bolt in decent condition. freind blue up a 92 talon he had bout 6 mo ago, running full ethanol conversion, gm maf, etc etc...modded fairly high. running 28 psi, but he grenaded the tranny, then fixed it, and went to the track where he then roasted piston #3 after the injector locked up. poof. that was a solid 10 second car, pretty fun to drive b4 he killed it. now hes got a 91 talon tsi that hes getting back up to reliable status. anyway, if i find one, ill letcha know! |
well, just found a 91 talon tsi, 400 bux...guess i should eat my words. lol. need the motor gone through, but its a 6 bolt (skipped teeth, bent valves) and the rest of it is in great shape.
figure i can rebuild the motor for about 6-8 hundo and have a good lil car |
dude if that's the cars in good shape buy it!!!!! thats a bloody steal. I got mine for $770 running and driving from a near by auto wrecker, bent valves and a head but other wise good condition car for $400 TAKE IT!
you find it online I take it? pop me a link? Ya im not used to hearing the 4g37, but ya the 1.8l is junk. You see the car to the right of mine in the pic's the 2G talon has a really rare factory bumper I'm going to see if its not broken and if it ain't then that'll be another $190+ in my pocket. Oh and if you do buy it get the balance shaft eliminator kit for the engine when you rebuild it, it'll stop the timing belt from skipping on you. here's a link:http://www.dsmparts.com/customer/pro...8&bestseller=Y I'm jealous of your friends TSI, no one around here sells them once they get them so their very hard to find in my province. I'm stuck with a lowly eclipse gs but hey its a manual, so I cant complain to much. |
Quote:
|
yea, its in pretty good shape, ill upload some pics here for ya. im thinkin just do the valves and balance shaft elimination, plus a good gates racing belt. if i PnP the head, ill just do it myself. check out my album and youll see the work i did on the 7m head.
im thinkin ill just set it up close to stock. maybe to the gm maf and translator, FMIC, big 16g (or a ball bearing turbo of some kind), bigger injectors, and some differential work. some lowering springs and struts too, w/ some better tires and maybe the big brake upgrade. that all depends on how long i hold onto it. i just want a good lil car that gets decent mileage, is fun, and can still roll in winter if i dont wanna drive the truck. |
lol I hear ya on the fuel mileage, my old 79 chevy got maybe 12 mpg!
Ya keeping it close to stocks probably your best bet for reliability but sounds like you have a pretty solid plan. You'll be able to keep up with all your friends that's for sure! Still can believe you found a AWD for $400 sooooo jealous! I'd like to pnp the head on the eclipse but I have no clue how to do it or what I'd need. |
yep haha. my dad has a 78 gmc and a 79 f250 and they both get around 10-12. but they do all the work thats for sure. plowing, hauling water, firewood, rock, dirt etc...
for porting and polishing i just smoothed out the short side radius, deshrouded the valves and partitioned the divider between the valves to a narrower edge. doing that to a minimum on the 7m head netted me about 20cfm more flow on the intake and 15cfm on the exhaust. first time i ever did porting so i was happy. i just used an electric die grinder and some dremel bits. a better setup would be a good air grinder or 1/4" electric. youll spend more money on the stuff, but itll go alot faster. add in the porting kit from standard abrasives (google standard abrasives) and thatll give you everything you need to do a full porting job. anyway, i put some pics in my album of it. pretty stoked to pick this car up. im also pickin up a 93 mazda mx-3 with a v6 and 5 speed, 200 bux for that one and it runs great, just needs gaskets, has a steam release into one of the cylinders. i plan on fixing that one and selling it, or putting one of my extra eaton m62's on it for a fun lil hatchback. im gettin the feeling im going a lil boost nuts...:grinking: |
haha I know what you mean, my truck did all of the work to. Was such a great truck plus good shape but hey ya gotta pay the bills!
thanx for the info man, I might just have to get a practice head to try first just to be sure I don't butch it. lol Looked at your talon pick and all I gotta say is GREAT FIND!!! totally jealous for sure now. .........take it off your hands for $600?? :bouncy: jk definitely be a keeper in my books that's a clean 1G, plus a good find on the mazda could pay for a lot of parts! |
yea, the big trick with porting is use some dykem (metal dye) or a sharpie, color your surface and score your gasket faces in so you match them up well. then just go slooooow. i only spent 12 hours porting on my 7m head, but i didnt enlarge the inlet ports at all or gasket match anything, i just cleaned up the shrouds, guides and short side radius.
standard abrasives actually has a pretty good walk through on their site if i recall. haha, believe it or not, your not the only person thats made an offer on it. i had one for 800 and one for 1200 as she sits, but i wanna keep it now that i found one for such a good deal. and yea the mazda should pay for quite a few parts i hope. like i said, if it doesnt sell, im throwing a S/C on it and swapping around mafs and injectors, tossing on a SAFC2 and seeing what happens. possibly a KLZE swap after the supercharger heh heh :bouncy: ill make sure to keep you updated with the talon on my end, you do the same man. also, on the 5m i wanna know whats goin on with it! cheers. |
hey just wondering if your joining the dsmtuners forums? great people there who can help you with any questions you do have.
|
i think i might (just what i need, more time online haha) ive been looking up a ton of info on there as it is. thing is, between the massive amounts of helpful stuff ive already found on there, and my freinds here that are dsm heads, idk if ill even need to haha.
i probably will just to show the car after i fix it. and just share my experience and learn a bit more too. my freind also just told me hes got an 87 turbo supra he wants to sell me, its all complete besides the tranny (and i have another freind whos got one of those). he wants to sell it to me for 500 bux so...haha, ill wait on that a bit tho. are you on dsmtuners? |
je pistons and eagle rods are one hell of a good choice.
should make a pretty monster N/A build. remember to shop around make sure your getting a good deal. here is a great site: http://www.suprasport.com/Internals_c_63.html and if your lookin for cams ive heard nothing but good things from these guys: http://www.gude.com/Products/camlist.php#toyota |
Quote:
Ya I'm on there (buhay6), mostly in the Canadian forum/ newbie forums checking shit out. All so lots of funny stuff in the hangout forum 'n such. |
Quote:
|
540 for there cams and a 250 core deposit on the cams.
i asked 2 days ago |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 12:26 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.