Stock Block

[Dboz]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

That makes sense as well, but note that with 'only' 450rwhp a bpu++++ Mkiv Supra is still an awesome vehicle. When driven where it really shines (on a roadrace course), an Mkiv Supra at 450rwhp with a good set of tires is easily enough car for most intermediate-level drivers.

im not starting an arguement here.. but

a mk4 supra on a real race course was always raced with a different engine.. 3sgte in most of them.. and now 3uz-fe v8's..

partially because the races have hp limits.. 600ish hp
but the engine is lighter and their torque is much more useable then a 2jz's
the corolla rally car was pushing out 300whp with 650 lbs of torque =D

thats why i think a 2jz mk4 supra is the best at on "the run" races on highways.. you ll smoke so many people haha

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by Dboz

im not starting an arguement here.. but

a mk4 supra on a real race course was always raced with a different engine.. 3sgte in most of them.. and now 3uz-fe v8's..

partially because the races have hp limits.. 600ish hp
but the engine is lighter and their torque is much more useable then a 2jz's
the corolla rally car was pushing out 300whp with 650 lbs of torque =D

thats why i think a 2jz mk4 supra is the best at on "the run" races on highways.. you ll smoke so many people haha

I agree with you about the 2jz-gte - given the horsepower restrictions in those races, it's just not the optimal choice. On the other hand, you have to admit the vast majority of the drivers that have roadraced the mk4 hard core with 3sgte's are at a skill level quite a bit better than intermediate-level.

[TONY!]

Folks, can we try really hard to keep it as civil as can be.

Thanks.

I really don't want to lock this thread up.



BTW Happy New Year to all!

[Dboz]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

I agree with you about the 2jz-gte - given the horsepower restrictions in those races, it's just not the optimal choice. On the other hand, you have to admit the vast majority of the drivers that have roadraced the mk4 hard core with 3sgte's are at a skill level quite a bit better than intermediate-level.

yea the 3sgte stroker 2.2L is more then sufficent to put out those hp reliablely and win races..

well it was up to toyota to use it.. i really wanna write a letter and ask them why they never really used the 2jz for any kind of race.. i know its whole lot heavier but still..

anyways check this supra out

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by Dboz

yea the 3sgte stroker 2.2L is more then sufficent to put out those hp reliablely and win races..

well it was up to toyota to use it.. i really wanna write a letter and ask them why they never really used the 2jz for any kind of race.. i know its whole lot heavier but still..

anyways check this supra out ...

Thanks for posting those pictures - I agree that v8 looks kind of cool in a jza80 engine bay.

On the other hand, it's kind of a shame. With the bone-stock 2jz-gte block's ability to put out over 800rwhp, there's really no need to swap it out (imo). Personally, I'd rather see a 2jz-gte being used in a '68 Cuda than a V8 in a jza80.

[Dboz]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Thanks for posting those pictures - I agree that v8 looks kind of cool in a jza80 engine bay.

On the other hand, it's kind of a shame. With the bone-stock 2jz-gte block's ability to put out over 800rwhp, there's really no need to swap it out (imo). Personally, I'd rather see a 2jz-gte being used in a '68 Cuda than a V8 in a jza80.

thats the 4.7 litre 2uz-fe =D.. its buttom end can take.. umm we dont know yet haha.. probely somewhere in the 1000+ range.. a bored out one to 5.3 did 1200hp with 20PSI.. lol

the power delivary on that v8 will put the 2jz to shame though

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by Dboz

thats the 4.7 litre 2uz-fe =D.. its buttom end can take.. umm we dont know yet haha.. probely somewhere in the 1000+ range.. a bored out one to 5.3 did 1200hp with 20PSI.. lol...

Yup and a built 2jz-gte put out 1520rwhp through a powerglide transmission & high-stall torque converter.

Originally Posted by Dboz

...the power delivary on that v8 will put the 2jz to shame though

Although it might be capable of exceeding 1520rwhp, I sincerely doubt it'll ever make enough power to "put the 2jz to shame".

[Dboz]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Yup and a built 2jz-gte put out 1520rwhp through a powerglide transmission & high-stall torque converter.
Although it might be capable of exceeding 1520rwhp, I sincerely doubt it'll ever make enough power to "put the 2jz to shame".

im sure the 2uz-fe buttom end is tough or tougher then a 2jz

a built one did 1600whp and probely more haha

its the power deilvary that will put it to shame.. 2jz's will suffer alot more boost lag then a 2uz-fe turboed.. torque numbers and plot will put it away too =D

[SKILMATIC]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Thanks for posting those pictures - I agree that v8 looks kind of cool in a jza80 engine bay.

On the other hand, it's kind of a shame. With the bone-stock 2jz-gte block's ability to put out over 800rwhp, there's really no need to swap it out (imo). Personally, I'd rather see a 2jz-gte being used in a '68 Cuda than a V8 in a jza80.

I totally agree with that. Plus the 2jz is lighter than the v8 which would inturn cause for better handling and better et's.

Although it might be capable of exceeding 1520rwhp, I sincerely doubt it'll ever make enough power to "put the 2jz to shame".

I also agree as well. One must calculate hp/weight.

This does get a bit off-topic though. Although big single turbos, v8 engine swaps and nos are all ways to make more power, I'm waiting for SKILMATIC to fess up that he's way off base with his 650rwhp on stock block & stock twins GUESS. He guessed wrong - whether it was due to faulty arithemtic or his faulty knowledge about the size of the 2jz-gte's oem twins. I think it's pretty important that guys like Evilfurby don't go away from this thread thinking that he'll be able to make 650rwhp with his '97 mk4 tt, using only the oem twins and the stock block, after he buys it.

And I am waiting for you to admit you debacled yourself. You just admitted it was attainable with the help of something so cheap as nitrous. I was waiting for you to notice your own flaw. This is the second time you have done this to yourself. I hope this isnt a habbit for you.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...And I am waiting for you to admit you debacled yourself. You just admitted it was attainable with the help of something so cheap as nitrous. I was waiting for you to notice your own flaw. This is the second time you have done this to yourself. I hope this isnt a habbit for you.

I mentioned NO2 MUCH earlier in this debate, and specifically excluded it from the conditions. Sorry for you that you didn't notice it sooner. You also said in your post that stated the conditions of this debate that you'd make the power with the stock twins. You never mentioned anything about nos.

Also, why didn't your earlier (flawed) calculations here include NO2? LOL!

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

Dude, no one ever said anything about cost aspects. I said it is possible to get that much. Even you should agree that it is possible. And if I had 25grand to spend on a motor and I had to use the stock twins. All I would do is max boost, racing fuel, bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, standalone engine management, bore the engine out w/ stroker kit...

WHOA! HOLD ON THERE BUCKO! You said STOCK BLOCK. If it's bored out w/stroker kit, it's NOT STOCK anymore!!!

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...exedy multi disc clutch, lightened flywheel with carbon pads, trd diff, better IC and piping, intercooler chiller kit, and 200shot of nitrous(wet kit)...

WRONG AGAIN. You wouldn't be making the power with the stock twins in that build. You'd be making it with the NOS. You said nothing about NOS in your earlier posts, and Evilfurby didn't ask about making power with NOS - he asked about making it with the stock twins.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Theres your 650rwhp. Stock engine is 320 just the nitrous alone bumps it up to 520(and thats a maybe 1000dollar mod depending on where you get the kit from) I got 24 grand left. Any questions?...

No questions, but you broke the conditions you set up in post #7 of this thread. As a reminder, you said exactly this: "I am talking about just a stock bottom end(as I have repeatedly said stock block) with the stock turbos. And I meant to say 650rwhp. With a better grind cams, angle cut valves, and a P&P head you can easily squeeze out 650rwhp." Instead, you came up with a build that makes power using a stroker kit & nos. LOL.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...And your still wrong. As I have already maped it out for you...

Sure you made the power, but not with the stock block and the stock twins. LOL!

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...I said the stock motor yes. Engine management, nitrous, and more boost I never said you couldnt use(show me where I said word for word that you couldnt use these things). With these things alone you can get that amount when done right. However, then you claimed that even if I could do anythign to the motor the stock twins wouldnt handle it. Which again is not true...

STOCK BLOCK = NO STROKER KIT. DUH.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Bingo now someone is thinking. I never said once you couldnt use nitrous or any other means of management. Just stock block and stock twins. Anything else is a go. Now you are coming to reality. I see the dice is turning in my favor...

Let's forget stock twins. Why not take them off completely, and spray a 450 shot? LOL. Again, Evilfurby wasn't talking about making power with nos, and neither were you...till now.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...As you have already losed this debate about a mk4. You have already admitted that 650rwhp is attainable on the stock motor with stock twins with the help of nitrous which is a 1000dollar mod. Well what happened with the rest of the 24grand? I never said once you couldnt use nitrous. Thank you for debating sir...

You're welcome. I hope you enjoyed loosing when you broke the conditions of this debate.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...The funny thing is while I am not qualified to answer these questions you have just debacled yourself in your own debate. First you say "you need a unattainable amount of money to make 650rwhp on the stock block and stock twins" then you say "o but its attainable with nitrous which is a 1000dollar mod." Maybe you will take my advice and chose your battles much more wisely.

I'm glad that YOU finally admit you can't make 650rwhp with the stock twins alone. At least the others reading this thread know the truth NOW.