New 1994 Twin Turbo Auto Trans, So Where to Start

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by consol1

…I know myself pretty well and one thing I am sure of is the kind of horse power that I will want in the end will not be the kind I can control at the beginning…

Don’t forget you’re dealing with a variable horsepower car. Just because we build it for a particular horsepower level *max* doesn’t mean you can’t turn down the boost (for whatever reason).

Originally Posted by consol1

…Stand alone systems are more dependable then adding a chip or other programs in my opinion…

What could be more reliable than the thousands of engineering hours that Toyota put into the stock ecu. Depending upon your horsepower level, the oem ecu could still be the best (and most dependable) choice.
Also note that an aftermarket ecu requires a map – likely configured by someone other than a certified automotive engineer - and that map (or maps) most likely will not have even 1% of the time that Toyota put into developing the stock map. Please trust me that this is a major consideration for not only peak-horsepower tuning, but regular drivability. In fact, peak horsepower tuning is almost a trivial job compared to getting cold-starting, tip-in, and all-around drivability just right in various temperatures, humidity levels, and altitudes. In short, when you make the move away from the oem ecu, it is a *major* step. We can get you 600rwhp with absolutely no issue at all, with the oem ecu. Please consider this before we make the final call on dumping it.

Originally Posted by consol1

…Plus you can't run 2 maps on a stock system…

True, but I’m still not convinced that you will need to.

Originally Posted by consol1

…I want to have a machine that will run on 91 to 93 octane and higher octane race fuel (116 octane)…

I’m still not sure why. With 91 octane, you’ll probably be disappointed in the performance of your car. Race fuel is hard to find, and terribly expensive. To me, you still haven’t fully considered a solution that would allow you one map, full-time – either water+meth injection or E85.

Originally Posted by consol1

…That is why I recommended two boost levels also. Map One lower octane, lower boost. Map Two high octane, higher boost…

The oem ecu handles lots of different boost levels, depending on the rpm. Again, your 3L engine will not be that impressive with the relatively low boost level we’ll need to keep it at for 91 octane. It honestly won’t be that much better than a bone-stock Supra. Marginally quicker, sure. But night-and-day, not even close.

Originally Posted by consol1

…The reason I am being vague about WHP power is I do not know what the number is due to the two fuel octane choices. …

With 91 octane, your max will be about 450rwhp or so (through your auto trans) with a mid-to-large turbo (with a fair bit of lag). I doubt either would meet your expectations for most of the driving you would do...and please be realistic with me – you’re not going to run race fuel except for rare occasions. Again, I’ve been there and done that. It’s a pain in the butt. However, if you can honestly tell me you'll keep pure race fuel in your tank 33% of the time (or more), you'll change my mind.

Aside: The largest ‘record’ I’m aware of is nearly 700rwhp on 93 octane pump gas, with an absolute monster turbo...but it didn’t make barely any boost at all until about 6800 rpm, and then it went vertical. In the end, nitrous was used to spool this turbo, and it was rarely run on pump gas. When boost ‘goes vertical’, precisely controlling it is very difficult (especially if spooled by nitrous!)…and engine damage occurs if boost limits are exceeded for a given octane of fuel (yes, even with ‘built’ internals).

I appreciate your tight timeframe, your relatively unrestricted budget, and your high expectations. I sincerely believe we can meet all of them. If you’ll allow me, I can keep you from wasting your time (and money). Safety and an overall balanced design will be part of it too. Also believe me when I say, there really is no practical limit to the amount of horsepower you can run on the new C16 race fuel (or the VP Import 120+ octane before it), in a properly modified Mkiv Supra Turbo. This can be a reliable (albeit not necessarily comfortable-to-drive) ride at pretty much any number you care to put down. Try me.

Specifics needed:
- Your max rwhp number. (Again, we can turn down the boost limit at first, without changing anything else).
- Your application (drag racing or roadracing or drifting or autocross or top speed etc.).
- Will this car be 'shown', or will it be a 'sleeper'.
- Is E85 available nearby? Would you consider running it full-time?
http://www.e85locator.net/State%20Pa....html#LasVegas
- How much do you care about it being comfortable to daily drive. Eg. What if the auto tranny has very harsh shifts? What if it doesn't cold-start very well? What if it hesitates a bit on tip-in. What if the torque converter is high-stall and the engine revs and then you get a small bit of wheel spin when leaving most/all traffic lights (especially up-hill)? What if it runs well in the summer but doesn't run well in the winter, or vice-versa? These are all just examples - in general, I need to know how much we can turn this into more of a race car and less of a lexus-like Grand Touring sportscar...and still have you extremely pleased with the results.

[consol1]

Ok Let me give you some more information. Thanks for the link to E85 locations. If the car was going to stay in Las Vegas, that might be an option. The car will spend most of it's time in SoCal, so that is an issue according to the link you provided.

I agree that I will be disappointed with the performance of 91 octane once we try it. I am positive you are correct that I will want to run race full all the time after I put in in that tank. But we are looking at $9 plus dollars a gallon.

I want this to be able to have daily drivability on the street. Yes I want it to be some what of a sleeper. It is red and will be blacked out with Ridox side skirts, Trial rear, HKS replica carbon lip, 98 front bumper, 98 lights,(front and Back), painted carbon oem hood, painted carbon hatch, all lexan(tented) windows and no wing. I will shave approximately 340 plus lbs with some other mods.

Drag racing is the main focus but I will have an adjustable suspension so I could take the occasional winding road. I want to surprise the un aware muscle and exotic guys. Harmless fun. This car in my mind is perfect for this.

I understand we don't have to build up the tranny but if I am going to 650 plus WHP with a big turbos and race fuel, changing the torque converter stall speed sounds likely. I am very very hesitant about water injection. I have had serveral bad experiences with the two top of the line systems. Fried one 3RZ due to a failure(with all the redundant safety features).

E85 may be another option on another map(you are thinking there he goes again!!! dumping the stock ecu and making maps) There is no access to E85 where I'm at in the in SoCal (according to the link).

So to answer the questions:
-Max WHP 750 will probably make me happiest but I would settle for 650
-Drag with the occasional winding road cruse
-Somewhat of a sleeper
-I could possibly make E85 a reality with a little home work
-Harsh shifter no biggie
-I want to try to limit the wheel spin as much as possible(thinking sleeper)
-Cold start is no biggie
-More of a race car is acceptable for me but I still want it to be sleepy if possible

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by consol1

Ok Let me give you some more information. Thanks for the link to E85 locations. If the car was going to stay in Las Vegas, that might be an option. The car will spend most of it's time in SoCal, so that is an issue according to the link you provided.

I agree that I will be disappointed with the performance of 91 octane once we try it. I am positive you are correct that I will want to run race full all the time after I put in in that tank. But we are looking at $9 plus dollars a gallon.

I want this to be able to have daily drivability on the street. Yes I want it to be some what of a sleeper. It is red and will be blacked out with Ridox side skirts, Trial rear, HKS replica carbon lip, 98 front bumper, 98 lights,(front and Back), painted carbon oem hood, painted carbon hatch, all lexan(tented) windows and no wing. I will shave approximately 340 plus lbs with some other mods.

Drag racing is the main focus but I will have an adjustable suspension so I could take the occasional winding road. I want to surprise the un aware muscle and exotic guys. Harmless fun. This car in my mind is perfect for this.

I understand we don't have to build up the tranny but if I am going to 650 plus WHP with a big turbos and race fuel, changing the torque converter stall speed sounds likely. I am very very hesitant about water injection. I have had serveral bad experiences with the two top of the line systems. Fried one 3RZ due to a failure(with all the redundant safety features).

E85 may be another option on another map(you are thinking there he goes again!!! dumping the stock ecu and making maps) There is no access to E85 where I'm at in the in SoCal (according to the link).

So to answer the questions:
-Max WHP 750 will probably make me happiest but I would settle for 650
-Drag with the occasional winding road cruse
-Somewhat of a sleeper
-I could possibly make E85 a reality with a little home work
-Harsh shifter no biggie
-I want to try to limit the wheel spin as much as possible(thinking sleeper)
-Cold start is no biggie
-More of a race car is acceptable for me but I still want it to be sleepy if possible

Ok thanks for the additional info. I'll mull over it for a bit and get back to you with some recommendations (or perhaps some additional questions).

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Ok thanks for the additional info. I'll mull over it for a bit and get back to you with some recommendations (or perhaps some additional questions).

Per our offline discussion, here are a few of my recommendations:
- An endless supply of >110 octane race fuel - for use whenever you're boosting. The ideal fuel is the new C16 from VP Racing Fuels.
- 72mm 'racing-spec' turbo kit
- Full 1000hp fuel system, with lines, pumps and FPR capable of E85 if you change your mind.
- Maintenance items: timing belt, coilpacks, harmonic dampener, diff fluid
- Wider rims & tires
- HKS HiperMax III coilovers
- HKS 272 Cams, ported head, 1mm oversize valves, dual valve springs, L19 studs
- TH400 or 4L80E built transmission
- AEM ECU
- Amuse R100 titanium exhaust
- GReddy 4-row FMIC
- TRD Diff
- Roll cage

Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

[warmkop]

Nice list will make decent power