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Old 04-26-2012, 07:07 PM   #1
fastsupra
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Default Single Turbo Question

I have been looking at some turbos and I came across what looked like a good turbo but Id like to know what you think. I am looking for a good 650whp turbo that has the quickest spool time I will also be running methanol in the car. This first turbo is the turbo that was reccomended to me along with a kit that I would substitute the turbo out for this one. The second turbo kit is the one I found on my own and it seems pretty promising. Let me know what you guys think, I will be purchasing it at the beginning of the summer. The second turbo kit is the Powerhouse racing Stage 1 turbo kit with the dual ball bearing turbo

http://www.spracingonline.com/store/...urbo_6262/3663

http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Templa...211&SearchYN=N
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:06 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastsupra View Post
I have been looking at some turbos and I came across what looked like a good turbo but Id like to know what you think. I am looking for a good 650whp turbo that has the quickest spool time I will also be running methanol in the car.
Pure methanol in the gas tank, or methanol injection? Just curious...
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastsupra View Post
This first turbo is the turbo that was reccomended to me along with a kit that I would substitute the turbo out for this one. The second turbo kit is the one I found on my own and it seems pretty promising. Let me know what you guys think, I will be purchasing it at the beginning of the summer. The second turbo kit is the Powerhouse racing Stage 1 turbo kit with the dual ball bearing turbo

http://www.spracingonline.com/store/...urbo_6262/3663

http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Templa...211&SearchYN=N
1) That SP turbo will not produce 650rwhp. Its spec is 670hp*.85=569.5rwhp (through a 6psd). ...and to get that 570rwhp, you'll need to run a LOT of boost ... possibly more than your meth injection kit alone could handle.
2) That PHR stage 1 kit is a 630rwhp kit (not 650rwhp), and same as my previous point, they likely ran a lot of boost with race fuel to get it. Probably about 30psi, I'd guess...which is significantly more boost than most meth injection kits can handle.

Are you willing to supplement the octane of your methanol injection with race fuel in your primary fuel tank?

Please remind me - are you going through a 6spd or an auto tranny?

My recommendations:
1) Get both the turbo and the kit from the same supplier (eg. Sound Performance).
2) Regardless of which supplier you choose, pick a slightly larger turbo, so you won't have to run as much boost to get 650rwhp. Sure, it'll lag a little bit more, but at least your engine will stay in one piece! I'd recommend something with approximately a 66mm or 67mm inducer.
3) The exact turbo honestly doesn't matter that much. Really! Anything with approximately the same inducer diameter and turbo design will spool roughly the same. You really won't notice a couple hundred rpm up or down while driving (a couple thousand, sure...but to get that big a difference, there's no way the turbo is the same size). After you square away your turbo upgrade, there are so many other things to worry about (eg driver training, tuning, traction, braking, driver training, precise boost control, etc., etc. (did I mention driver training? )). Please believe me that in the grand scheme of things, unless you're professionally racing for $ with rigid regulations, a hundred or two rpm one way or another will be the last of your concerns. Besides, all of these racing turbos last about two or three years at most - consider them to be a semi consumeable like your engine's timing belt. These turbos are designed for maximal performance, not maximum reliabilty like an oem-spec turbo. Why spend six months analyzing a turbo choice when two years later you'll be swapping out for something different anyway?

Lastly, please remind us of your application? (i.e. drifting, daily driving, top speed, autocross, drag, daily driver, roadracing, burnout contests, etc.) If you're going to be running your Mkiv Supra in a professional competition, then sure - perhaps 100rpm of spool time would be relevant...
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Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

Last edited by pwpanas; 04-27-2012 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:55 PM   #3
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I am going to be running methanol injection (snow performances stage 3 kit) and I will primarily be daily driving it, road racing, and the occasional drag racing. I just need a good turbo that has a quick spool time. I have been looking at sound performances turbos because along with the turbo I could buy their quick spool valve to go with it. So basically I want to buy a full turbo kit with the fastest spooling turbo that will get me roughly 650whp.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastsupra View Post
I am going to be running methanol injection (snow performances stage 3 kit) and I will primarily be daily driving it, road racing, and the occasional drag racing. I just need a good turbo that has a quick spool time. I have been looking at sound performances turbos because along with the turbo I could buy their quick spool valve to go with it. So basically I want to buy a full turbo kit with the fastest spooling turbo that will get me roughly 650whp.
I agree with your general approach. But the details about how you get there are critical. Your turbo's boost must not outflow the methanol's ability to suppress detonation, or your engine will quickly get ruined. A slightly larger turbo (with slightly more lag) allows you to run a bit less boost, thereby requiring less net octane. If you were willing to run pure race fuel, it wouldn't be as much of a concern.
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Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:04 PM   #5
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Ok that's makes sense. Could you post a link to a turbo or turbo kit that would be best for my hp goal and application? I would run race fuel but its just so expensive and I'd rather just run methanol since a one gallon tank of meth injection will last longer then a tank of race fuel.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:43 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by fastsupra View Post
Ok that's makes sense. Could you post a link to a turbo or turbo kit that would be best for my hp goal and application? I would run race fuel but its just so expensive and I'd rather just run methanol since a one gallon tank of meth injection will last longer then a tank of race fuel.
Agreed race fuel is an expensive option, but it's really the only way to safely squeeze absolutely every ounce of power out of a mid-size or large turbo in a gasoline engine.

Consider this complete turbo kit. If you get it tuned properly (including precise boost control), I'm certain you'll be happy with it:
http://www.spracingonline.com/store/...93-98_Supra/28
Pick the .81 a/r and ball bearing (with water lines) options.
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Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

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Old 04-30-2012, 02:27 AM   #7
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The only thing is that I really like that the turbo I originally looked at was a waterless dual ball bearing and that the turbo could have a quickspool valve mounted with it. I don't know much about how big a difference having the waterless turbo vs a turbo with water lines but it just seems better.

http://www.spracingonline.com/store/...urbo_6262/3663

I could be wrong but it just seems like this turbo with the setup I described would spool more quickly then the ball bearing turbo that comes with it or is the difference between spool times very minimal?

Also I found this turbo on SoundPerformance and was wondering what you thought
http://www.spracingonline.com/store/...urbo_6266/3676

Last edited by fastsupra; 04-30-2012 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastsupra View Post
The only thing is that I really like that the turbo I originally looked at was a waterless dual ball bearing and that the turbo could have a quickspool valve mounted with it. I don't know much about how big a difference having the waterless turbo vs a turbo with water lines but it just seems better.

http://www.spracingonline.com/store/...urbo_6262/3663

I could be wrong but it just seems like this turbo with the setup I described would spool more quickly then the ball bearing turbo that comes with it or is the difference between spool times very minimal?

Also I found this turbo on SoundPerformance and was wondering what you thought
http://www.spracingonline.com/store/...urbo_6266/3676
A water cooled turbo is more reliable, especially for extended hard driving like top speed runs and roadracing. Contrast that with a 10 second drag race where water-cooling the turbo doesn't do much good.

That's a 569.5rwhp turbo in your 1st link, and a 624.75rwhp turbo in the 2nd link. Neither is a 650rwhp turbo (through a 6spd), so neither one meets your power goal - right? Also, 624.75rwhp is right at the top of that 2nd one's capability range, probably running a lot of boost to get there. That boost level may be beyond your meth injection kit's ability to suppress detonation for. If you were willing to run race fuel, you could try that turbo at 40 or 50psi of boost, but with a limited flow meth injection kit, that won't work. Oh, and of course that 569.5rwhp will spool quicker, but so do the oem twins - right?
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Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

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Old 05-01-2012, 03:04 AM   #9
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Yeah you are right. so then do you know a good turbo that is waterless and quick spool valve compatible that will give me my 650rwhp goal?

Along with the turbo kit and everything that will come with it, what else will I be needing to upgrade in order to run 650rwhp? I currently have 750cc injectors with a top feed, greddy 3 row FMIC, boost controller and the snow stage 3 methanol injection kit. I am looking at getting an AEM standalone when I buy the turbo kit. Is there anything else that I will need to upgrade?

Last edited by pwpanas; 05-04-2012 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:43 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by fastsupra View Post
Yeah you are right. so then do you know a good turbo that is waterless and quick spool valve compatible that will give me my 650rwhp goal?
Again, if you don't mind me asking, why waterless? A water-cooled turbo is significantly more reliable. The penny-pinching Toyota accountants wouldn't have allowed water-cooled oem twins if it wasn't fiscally beneficial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastsupra View Post
...Along with the turbo kit and everything that will come with it, what else will I be needing to upgrade in order to run 650rwhp? I currently have 750cc injectors with a top feed, greddy 3 row FMIC, boost controller and the snow stage 3 methanol injection kit. I am looking at getting an AEM standalone when I buy the turbo kit. Is there anything else that I will need to upgrade?
1) Why didn't you get a complete fuel system? Those injectors are useless without all of the extra plumbing, pumps, fittings, relays, wiring, brackets, etc.
2) You don't need an AEM to run only 650rwhp.
3) If you're getting an AEM 100% for sure (for whatever reason), then get it installed and running perfectly with the oem twins first. Then put on the 100% complete fuel system and get that working with the AEM. After that put on the turbo kit. If you make all of the changes at once, among other things troubleshooting will be a nightmare.

You can run 650rwhp just fine with the oem maf and a simple 'piggyback' fuel controller. If anything, there's too much on your list already, other than the need for wider rims and tires to handle the additional horsepower (unless you want to just sit there spinning instead of going fast). Oh, the oem clutch won't handle 650rwhp. Let me know if you have any questions about clutch upgrades.
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Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

Last edited by pwpanas; 05-04-2012 at 01:03 PM.
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