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Old 03-26-2007, 12:06 AM   #1
chuan01
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Talking Looking to buy supra

hey guys, i'm new to this forum. thought it'd be a good idea to find out some stuff before i buy my car.

i'm looking to buy a Supra MKIV, maybe 1995 model. My problem is, would it be better to buy the RZ and change the turbos, or to buy a SZ and put in turbos. other than the obvious power difference between the two, and the fact that the RZ is a 6-speed, i'm not really sure if there are any other differences that would matter. any advice would be great.

also, i'm lookin at spending maybe $20k on mods after i've bought the car. any tips on what mods would optimize my car's performance and handling? (i dont want the car to be any more powerful than 500HP). thanks

P.S. i'm quite new to cars and modifications, so go easy on all the tech terms

Last edited by chuan01; 03-26-2007 at 12:13 AM. Reason: forgot something
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Old 04-04-2007, 03:25 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuan01
hey guys, i'm new to this forum. thought it'd be a good idea to find out some stuff before i buy my car.

i'm looking to buy a Supra MKIV, maybe 1995 model. My problem is, would it be better to buy the RZ and change the turbos, or to buy a SZ and put in turbos. other than the obvious power difference between the two, and the fact that the RZ is a 6-speed, i'm not really sure if there are any other differences that would matter. any advice would be great.

also, i'm lookin at spending maybe $20k on mods after i've bought the car. any tips on what mods would optimize my car's performance and handling? (i dont want the car to be any more powerful than 500HP). thanks

P.S. i'm quite new to cars and modifications, so go easy on all the tech terms
you might wanna consider the money situation at hand as well, if you have more money to spend and you find a nice, clean SE that you wanna turbo, its gonna cost you a lot more to do the modifications than if you wanted to put in larger turbos on an alrdy turboed 2jz, start with the basics, a full exhaust system that frees up the flow of the motor including intake and maybe a new header brings out significant hp on a turbo supra...dont remember but i think it was 80 last time i checked, thats the easiest way to get more power, you can achieve 500hp without upgrading the turbos, and the stock end is pretty much unbreakable, as for handling id go with a set of fully adjustable coilovers, theres a lot of aftermarket support and lot of good deals you can get for supra parts
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Broken Rides:
(Sold) 91 supra turbo 5speed with a 1jzgte motor
421whp 400(399) ft*lbs of torque on tap @ 15 psi

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Old 04-04-2007, 04:03 AM   #3
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thanks a lot ok, well my current budget is enough to cover both the SZ and the RZ. the only thing i'm thinking, is that insurance on the RZ is gonna be pretty steep. but if what you say about it being more costly to do the mods, and the fact that i can achieve 500hp without changing the turbos....then maybe the RZ is the way to go.

one question though, the stock turbos can handle the 500hp right?
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:16 PM   #4
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yea, ive known a couple of people that have run 500hp on the stock twins...i think around 550hp is when you have to upgrade the whole turbo system, the stock motor itself can handle the power, but it gains a lot through simple bolt ons as well
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Now: Saving for an MKIV
Broken Rides:
(Sold) 91 supra turbo 5speed with a 1jzgte motor
421whp 400(399) ft*lbs of torque on tap @ 15 psi

"Always outnumbered, never outgunned."
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Old 04-04-2007, 11:17 PM   #5
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just one more question...sorry i seem to keep thinking of questions after i've made a post

roughly how much more does it cost to do the modifications to a non-turbo? because i find that the cost of a non-turbo 2JZ is a lot cheaper than the turboed 2JZ. what's required to put turbos on a non-turbo? new pipes? and IF i have made the modifications, will the 5-speed gearbox make much difference compared to the RZ's 6-speed?

and another thing, i want to put a decent sound system in the car, but having looked at the boot space, i'm not exactly sure how i can fit a sub and amp in. any ideas?

thanks heaps for your replies
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Old 04-05-2007, 01:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraMan1784
...its gonna cost you a lot more to do the modifications than if you wanted to put in larger turbos on an alrdy turboed 2jz...
Agreed 100%+++
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraMan1784
...start with the basics, a full exhaust system that frees up the flow of the motor including intake...
Actually, the oem mkiv tt intake and the oem mkiv tt 'catback' exhaust both flow just fine for your first set of upgrades (up to about 500hp at the crank). You do need to remove the catalytic converters and replace them with a straight-through downpipe to get above about 375rwhp. You'll also need a GReddy BCC to eliminate fuel cut after you raise your boost, and then a boost controller (or any other method) to raise your boost. Be sure to increase your fuel's octane to match your boost level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraMan1784
...and maybe a new header brings out significant hp on a turbo supra...
Actually, there's no way to replace the oem header on the Mkiv Supra TT, and still keep the oem twins in there. The exact size and shape of the oem header is absolutely critical to the oem tt sequential setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraMan1784
...and the stock end is pretty much unbreakable...
Also agreed 100%, if you're talking about the Mkiv TT engine, the 2jz-gte!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraMan1784
...you can achieve 500hp without upgrading the turbos...yea, ive known a couple of people that have run 500hp on the stock twins...i think around 550hp is when you have to upgrade the whole turbo system
Agreed, if you're talking hp at the crank. If you're talking hp at the wheels, then 500rwhp is almost impossible with the oem twins, as well as being extremely impractical. Although 475rwhp+ has been achieved a by a very few Supras with the oem twins using race fuel and high boost, even this figure is extremely rare ... AND it's always been done with a brand-new shortblock and an extremely low-mileage set of oem twins. If your 2jz-gte has anywhere near 100K miles (or more), then ime you'll be very lucky to exceed about 420rwhp through a 6spd using race fuel and high boost.

In general, if you're sure that you want 500rwhp+, you'll need to consider a single turbo and an upgraded fuel system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraMan1784
...the stock motor itself can handle the power, but it gains a lot through simple bolt ons as well...
If you're talking about the TT engine (the 2jz-gTe), then I agree completely. The 2jz-gte is generally accepted/proven to handle 850rwhp reliably, and over 1000rwhp max (assuming proper tuning and sufficient octane of fuel, of course).
__________________
Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

Last edited by pwpanas; 04-05-2007 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 04-05-2007, 01:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuan01
...also, i'm lookin at spending maybe $20k on mods after i've bought the car. any tips on what mods would optimize my car's performance and handling? (i dont want the car to be any more powerful than 500HP)...
Performance:
  1. Do you mean 500hp or 500rwhp?
  2. If you're talking about 500hp at the crank, then you won't need $20k in mods...you'll just need a full set of 'bpu' modifications, a front mount intercooler, a fuel controller, cam gears, and some race fuel.
  3. If you're talking about 500rwhp reliably, then you'll need a single turbo system. If you want to run it on pump gas, I'd recommend a meth+water injection system as well. For 500rwhp you'll also need a new clutch (or transmission upgrades if it's an auto).
Handling:
Actually, the oem coilovers are excellent. The oem suspension actually roadraces just fine, and has done VERY well in circuits such as OLOA. 'Keepin' it real' here, most guys put coilovers or springs on their Supras because they think it looks 'cool' to have the car lowered. If you want to look cool, then that's fine. If you want the car to perform, the un-lowered mkiv tt oem suspension can outperform a lowered mkiv tt in many roadrace driving conditions. Of course, the oem suspension will handle most street driving situations (eg potholes & speed bumps) much better too.

If, after aggressively roadracing your Mkiv Supra TT on a real roadrace track, you find the suspension a bit mushy, all you need to do is replace the shocks (not the springs) with a set of KYB/AGXs. Again, I'd recommend you drive the oem suspension first, before you decide to make that change, because (again) the oem jza80 tt suspension is actually a great setup.

If you are extremely serious about competing at roadracing, then of course a full set of integrated, adjustable coilovers and sway bars can be beneficial. Also note that this type of extreme suspension upgrade can make your Supra MUCH less friendly for street driving. In short, if you want your girlfriend's fillings to fall out of her teeth on the way to the movie theater, then go ahead and install a full set of race coilovers the same day you purchase your Supra.

General Tip:
Lastly, be sure to set aside a good chunk of that $20K you mentioned for upgrades...in order to do full, proper maintenance on the car. Who knows what might be wrong with it if you purchase it used, especially if it has higher mileage. It might need a full 60K maintenance, including a new timing belt. It might need new coilpacks or a new harmonic dampener. Hell, a full set of good z-rated tires can run over $1K usd. This car is much more like a Porsche/Z06/Ferrari/Viper to maintain properly (i.e. don't budget your maintenance $ for the car like it's a Camry/Corolla/Celica/etc.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuan01
...one question though, the stock turbos can handle the 500hp right?
500hp yes, but not 500rwhp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuan01
...roughly how much more does it cost to do the modifications to a non-turbo? because i find that the cost of a non-turbo 2JZ is a lot cheaper than the turboed 2JZ...
There are many, many, many differences between the turbo and non-turbo Mkiv Supra. Not only is the engine completely different (head is completely different, and so is the ignition system, the intake & throttle body, injectors, ecu, compression ratio, pistons, oil squirters in the block, etc., etc.)...so is the entire braking system/abs, ecu, transmission, suspension (shocks, springs, sway bars), differential, etc. etc. Most people I know that have done a detailed cost comparison have concluded that it's MUCH cheaper to purchase a TT Mkiv to begin with, rather than start with a normally-aspirated (non-turbo, a.k.a. "N/A") and then do the conversion. In other words, if all you do is add a turbo, you'll end up a lot of horsepower but an overall vehicle with no driveline components or brakes to handle that increased horsepower level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuan01
...what's required to put turbos on a non-turbo? new pipes?...
Rofl. You'd need a >>>complete<<< N/A-T conversion kit, like this one:
http://www.boostlogic.com/parts/supr...oKitStage2.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuan01
...and IF i have made the modifications, will the 5-speed gearbox make much difference compared to the RZ's 6-speed?...
Generally yes. The 6spd is a much stronger gearbox...at least 50% tougher than the 5spd. The unmodified oem 6spd has held over 1400rwhp on the dyno, and has been drag raced into the 8s in the 1/4!!! ...compare this with an estimated 575rwhp or so as the generally accepted estimated reliable hp max for the 5spd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuan01
...and another thing, i want to put a decent sound system in the car, but having looked at the boot space, i'm not exactly sure how i can fit a sub and amp in. any ideas?...
If you permanently remove the spare tire, fitting a nice sub & amp is no problem at all. Alternatively, one company I know of sells a drop-in sub box replacement:
http://www.wickedcas.com/gallery/mai...gicboxes/mkiv/
__________________
Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

Last edited by pwpanas; 04-05-2007 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 04-05-2007, 11:21 PM   #8
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hey guys, thanks heaps for the posts. heaps of help

originally lookin at 500hp at the wheels. but i guess i'll see how well i can handle the car first before i increase power =P but i definitely do not want anything more, otherwise i mite kill myself lol and thanks for the info on differences between the RZ and SZ. i tried looking online for specs, but didn't find anything of any use. looks like the decisions been made then. RZ it is!! w00t
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Old 04-06-2007, 01:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuan01
...originally lookin at 500hp at the wheels...
Again, that means you'll need a single turbo system. If you want to run it on pump gas, I'd recommend a meth+water injection system as well. For 500rwhp you'll also need a new clutch (or transmission upgrades if it's an auto).
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuan01
...but i guess i'll see how well i can handle the car first before i increase power...
Great plan!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuan01
...but i definitely do not want anything more, otherwise i mite kill myself...
Actually, you could easily hurt yourself with 400rwhp. If you're at all doubtful about your driving abilities, I'd strongly recommend you consider driver training at your local roadrace track. This could be the most cost-effective and important automotive investment you ever make.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuan01
...and thanks for the info on differences between the RZ and SZ. i tried looking online for specs, but didn't find anything of any use. looks like the decisions been made then. RZ it is!! w00t
Actually, the info was in this forum all along. Please take a look at this 'stickied' thread:
http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/...ead.php?t=6947

Either way, I'm glad the info was helpful.
__________________
Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.
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Old 04-06-2007, 01:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwpanas
Again, that means you'll need a single turbo system. If you want to run it on pump gas, I'd recommend a meth+water injection system as well. For 500rwhp you'll also need a new clutch (or transmission upgrades if it's an auto).
Great plan!Actually, you could easily hurt yourself with 400rwhp. If you're at all doubtful about your driving abilities, I'd strongly recommend you consider driver training at your local roadrace track. This could be the most cost-effective and important automotive investment you ever make.
Actually, the info was in this forum all along. Please take a look at this 'stickied' thread:
http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/...ead.php?t=6947

Either way, I'm glad the info was helpful.
yeh, like i said, i'll gradually do mods to the car, and see how well i can handle the power. definitely will take the driver training. i'd like to better my driving skills so that i can get the most out of my car.

i noticed on a lot of online videos, that supra's tend to be slower than skylines off a standing start (because of the skyline's AWD) despite having more power. is there any way that's relatively low-cost to better the supra's grip and initial acceleration? i noticed you have a '94 supra. how much power does yours run? some of my friends have been egging me to get a skyline instead, but i prefer the look of the supra. any info on advantages supra has over skylines? (sorry if these posts are troublesome...i'm still pretty new to cars and modifications)
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