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Old 03-20-2010, 10:44 PM   #1
matt1993supraTT
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Default ABS delete

hi there guys new to the forum and i've owned my supra for little over a year anyway i've just started to delete out the abs and was wondering if anyone else has done this and might be able to give me a few pointers.
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Old 03-21-2010, 09:08 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by matt1993supraTT View Post
hi there guys new to the forum and i've owned my supra for little over a year anyway i've just started to delete out the abs and was wondering if anyone else has done this and might be able to give me a few pointers.
Why are you doing this modification (pardon my curiosity)?
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Old 03-21-2010, 03:01 PM   #3
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Why are you doing this modification (pardon my curiosity)?

more room, less clutter. what part of GA are you from?
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:19 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by matt1993supraTT View Post
more room, less clutter. what part of GA are you from?
I live near Atlanta.

Note that the advanced, sophisticated ABS system is one of the things that make the MKIV TT a great GT sportscar, and a significant part of why it was very much worth the $50K price tag at the time (note: it's about an $80K sportscar in todays' dollars if you adjust that '93 price tag for the rate of inflation). Unless your Mkiv TT Supra is going to be a dedicated, trailered dragstrip-only car, the only tips you should be looking for is how to put the ABS back in your car, imho. In other words, there's a good reason why you're not finding any tech articles on how to remove the ABS - because it's generally a very bad idea.
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Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by pwpanas View Post
I live near Atlanta.

Note that the advanced, sophisticated ABS system is one of the things that make the MKIV TT a great GT sportscar, and a significant part of why it was very much worth the $50K price tag at the time (note: it's about an $80K sportscar in todays' dollars if you adjust that '93 price tag for the rate of inflation). Unless your Mkiv TT Supra is going to be a dedicated, trailered dragstrip-only car, the only tips you should be looking for is how to put the ABS back in your car, imho. In other words, there's a good reason why you're not finding any tech articles on how to remove the ABS - because it's generally a very bad idea.

well the car is going to be a dedicated track car, right now i am on a budget so i'll be using the stock turbos for awhile i was planning on running a adjustable proportion valve
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by matt1993supraTT View Post
well the car is going to be a dedicated track car, right now i am on a budget so i'll be using the stock turbos for awhile i was planning on running a adjustable proportion valve
"Track Car"? you mean like the track at road atlanta? ...atlanta motor speedway? or the braselton/silver dollar?

Even if you do mean it'll be dedicated to dragstrip tracks, trailered only, you need to keep that ABS in while you still drive it on the street, imho. Ripping out the abs is the very last mod you should make, right before you permenently take off the tag, and pull it onto the trailer behind your duelie turbo diesel.
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Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.
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Old 03-21-2010, 06:36 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by pwpanas View Post
"Track Car"? you mean like the track at road atlanta? ...atlanta motor speedway? or the braselton/silver dollar?

Even if you do mean it'll be dedicated to dragstrip tracks, trailered only, you need to keep that ABS in while you still drive it on the street, imho. Ripping out the abs is the very last mod you should make, right before you permenently take off the tag, and pull it onto the trailer behind your duelie turbo diesel.

i gotta ask why do you feel this strongly about the abs system? with the right proportoin of the brakes this system will not be missed..some of the newest supercars which are considered drivers cars do not run a ABS system the supra is great in so many ways but just like the trac system which has been out of the car for awhile its worthless to me when i said track car i meant multi use i guess sorry i throw that word around alot the car will see a great deal of drag strip action & road course action as well my mind set is simply is better..you said you lived in atlanta i dont live but a hour away from atlanta in hall county i got a buddy that also has a 93 just like mine except sinlge turbo..do you go to atlanta drag way much? if so you've most likely have seen both of us there before

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Old 03-21-2010, 08:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt1993supraTT View Post
i gotta ask why do you feel this strongly about the abs system? with the right proportoin of the brakes this system will not be missed..some of the newest supercars which are considered drivers cars do not run a ABS system the supra is get in so many ways but just like the trac system which has been out of the car for awhile its worthless to me when i said track car i meant multi use i guess sorry i throw that word around alot the car will see a great deal of drag strip action & road course action as well my mind set is simply is better..you said you lived in atlanta i dont live but a hour away from atlanta in hall county i got a buddy that also has a 93 just like mine except sinlge turbo..do you go to atlanta drag way much? if so you've most likely have seen both of us there before
To begin with, I'll let the '93.5 Mkiv Supra NCF speak for itself:
http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf171.jpg
http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf175.jpg
http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf177.jpg

I agree with you about the Trac system...it was a band-aid for guys that could afford the car but had no idea how to drive it safely. The MKIII Supra Turbo and the same model years of 300ZX were referred to as 'surgeon killers'. You'll find plenty of data online about how to tear this system out and replace it with something much more capable and road-track oriented (eg. RaceLogic).

However the ABS system is a completely different 'animal' than the oem traction control system. Wthout ABS, there's no way to (for example), efficiently both brake and accelerate through a chicayne to keep the turbos spun up. The component you referred to as "clutter" is a 4-way valve that allows the ABS computer to control braking force of each wheel independently. For a left hand turn while braking, the abs automatically proportions more braking force to the front right wheel. Let's see your manual proportioning valve do that! Again, this was cutting-edge technology in '93, and is one of the primary features of the car. The MKIV Supra TT's braking system makes the car much safer and much more capable in most drivers hands, under most driving conditions. Hopefully I've made the case that my perspective on this topic is significantly 'more than a feeling'. If not, we'll have to agree to disagree, as individuals.

As a moderator on this forum, I have to state my absolute disagreement with this modification, except for an exclusively-trailered dragstrip-only car. For street driving this modification is a safety hazard. Period.
I'll also restate this for emphasis: The Mkiv Supra Turbo's ABS system is one of the selling/reselling points that made it one of the greatest GT sportscars of the '90s.

Personally (fwiw), I'd never buy an Mkiv Supra Turbo with the ABS system removed. This car was designed to be highly capable on the street, and be roadrace-ready right 'out of the box'. With IRS, double-wishbone coilover suspension, beefy sway bars, and a cutting-edge ABS system with big 4-piston calipers, that design purpose is pretty obvious. To me, it's an interesting quirk that this car can also be modified to be quite fast on the dragstrip, but to me 20 minutes of roadracing is a lot more fun than 10 seconds of dragging. I don't mind watching drag racing, but I find myself at Road Atlanta more often. You should give roadracing a try!
__________________
Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

Last edited by pwpanas; 03-21-2010 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 03-21-2010, 09:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwpanas View Post
To begin with, I'll let the '93.5 Mkiv Supra NCF speak for itself:
http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf171.jpg
http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf175.jpg
http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/ncf177.jpg

I agree with you about the Trac system...it was a band-aid for guys that could afford the car but had no idea how to drive it safely. The MKIII Supra Turbo and the same model years of 300ZX were referred to as 'surgeon killers'. You'll find plenty of data online about how to tear this system out and replace it with something much more capable and road-track oriented (eg. RaceLogic).

However the ABS system is a completely different 'animal' than the oem traction control system. Wthout ABS, there's no way to (for example), efficiently both brake and accelerate through a chicayne to keep the turbos spun up. The component you referred to as "clutter" is a 4-way valve that allows the ABS computer to control braking force of each wheel independently. For a left hand turn while braking, the abs automatically proportions more braking force to the front right wheel. Let's see your manual proportioning valve do that! Again, this was cutting-edge technology in '93, and is one of the primary features of the car. The MKIV Supra TT's braking system makes the car much safer and much more capable in most drivers hands, under most driving conditions. Hopefully I've made the case that my perspective on this topic is significantly 'more than a feeling'. If not, we'll have to agree to disagree, as individuals.

As a moderator on this forum, I have to state my absolute disagreement with this modification, except for an exclusively-trailered dragstrip-only car. For street driving this modification is a safety hazard. Period.
I'll also restate this for emphasis: The Mkiv Supra Turbo's ABS system is one of the selling/reselling points that made it one of the greatest GT sportscars of the '90s.

Personally (fwiw), I'd never buy an Mkiv Supra Turbo with the ABS system removed. This car was designed to be highly capable on the street, and be roadrace-ready right 'out of the box'. With IRS, double-wishbone coilover suspension, beefy sway bars, and a cutting-edge ABS system with big 4-piston calipers, that design purpose is pretty obvious. To me, it's an interesting quirk that this car can also be modified to be quite fast on the dragstrip, but to me 20 minutes of roadracing is a lot more fun than 10 seconds of dragging. I don't mind watching drag racing, but I find myself at Road Atlanta more often. You should give roadracing a try!

well you've made your point very clear no doubt about that lol, no this was a bad on my part not searching for the for clear data or looking at the pros & cons of the system..i would love to run on road atlanta only track i've been on is jennings with the bike, but never at road ATL, i'd say for a auto car to road race would be hard love to find a paddle shift for it if theres even such a thing?
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt1993supraTT View Post
well you've made your point very clear no doubt about that lol, no this was a bad on my part not searching for the for clear data or looking at the pros & cons of the system..i would love to run on road atlanta only track i've been on is jennings with the bike, but never at road ATL, i'd say for a auto car to road race would be hard love to find a paddle shift for it if theres even such a thing?
Unfortunately no paddle shift I'm aware of. Although an auto's not ideal for roadracing, it can be done. A good friend of mine did *several* RA and Little Talladega events with his single turbo'd mkiv... He did boil over his tranny fluid once, but I believe he got the issue corrected with a bigger, electric-fan transmission oil cooler.
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Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.
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