F@#cking SMOG

pandrade · 04-02-2012, 11:42 AM

Thanks for clearing that up. I was always curiouse to see if that was true and now I know it's not. I always assumed that if you had the blue classic plate you where exempt because here in my state at the Edison home all there classics don't have cats or any emissions control And there driving around. Well at least I can travle around the states knowing I would have to put my cats back, ( or my fake out cat ) to avoid a ticket. Thanks Cre

Joefishizzle · 04-06-2012, 05:02 PM

okay so i leaned the car to about 11 as mentioned. took the car back, failed again, however i passed 15mph test and barelly failed the 25mph. so i leaned out to about 13 since my NOx was still low. smogged it this morning and the check engine light came on, and my CO and HC jumped back up to were they were. i got check engine 21 and 51.

i think the O2 is an old code cause the new sensor was just put on, so 51....now i measured resistance and my values are way off according to cyngus manual. any help?

Joefishizzle · 04-06-2012, 06:06 PM

is there a way to adjust it? Or since my values weren't anywhere close does it need to be replaced?

cre · 04-06-2012, 06:22 PM

I don't think you understand the proper definition of "lean" and what ignition advance affects. Lean refers to your air to fuel mixture ratio. Ignition advance (dumbed down as "timing"; not the best term as there's more than one type of timing) refers to WHEN the fuel mixture is ignited.

If you ignite the mixture too soon the engine soaks up more heat and the cooling system must evacuate it. If you ignite it too late the heat energy exits with the exhaust and the valve train, O2 sensor, turbo, cat must all deal with the extra wear and tear. Bumping the ignition timing beyond 14 isn't going to result in much difference if the O2 sensor checks out I would test the AFM and if that still good you may need to replace the cat. A lower octane fuel may help out as it's easier for the engine to burn... just baby it while it's in the tank.

Make sure the O2 sensor is very well crimped in place and that you clear the codes before getting the vehicle tested again. Do NOT solder the wiring for an O2 sensor. The dissimilar metals may cause a dielectric reaction skewing the O2 readings significantly. The MKIII uses a narrow band sensor which uses very small voltage signals to determine if the mixture is stoichiometric and that random and tiny voltage spike from a dielectric connection could cause the readings to be significantly off.

Do NOT reset the codes before testing.... give the car a day or two of MILD driving to learn the finer fuel adjustments needed for optimal power and emissions compatibility. You are VERY likely to fail on a car that in its learning mode if the sensors are all old and weathered.

The code 51 doesn't mean a whole lot. Code 51 only means that the IDL switch wasn't closed when the diagnostic mode was running, the TPS isn't properly calibrated, you stepped on the throttle or the A/C was on. This code will clear automatically cone the offending trigger is resolved. A worn TPS shouldn't cause you to fail a test completely... it's a minor trim sensor.

Joefishizzle · 04-06-2012, 06:40 PM

Okay, well I don't understand what happened. I advanced timing first, numbers went down. Advanced a few more degrees, cel comes on and my numbers go back up

cre · 04-06-2012, 07:34 PM

Advance too much and you may cause pinging which causes the ecu to reduce timing advance significantly and add fuel.... Shouldn't happen from advanced an ignition timing increase of only 3? though. The O2 sensor also has a specific operating temperature range which must be met. As mentioned timing affects exhaust temp, but again 3? should have ZERO effect.

The only code stored was for the O2 sensor? Could have been knocking or excessive pinging. Is the mechanical timing spot on?

When you say "leaned out" are you just using the wrong term for ignition advance? Or are you using a fuel controller and adjusting the fuel for a specific AFR (for which that term is applicable)?

Remember, like I said, there's also the factor about the ECU needing a little time to learn the sensors and driving style. Also, make sure your spark plugs are in good shape and make sure there's no oil leaking in there with them.

Joefishizzle · 04-06-2012, 07:52 PM

Yes I mechanically advanced the timing to 13. My o2 is brand new, I replaced the gasket on it. The code stored was 21, as he was doing the 25mph pull on the dyno the light came on. Code was 51. I checked resistance between terminals and got bad results. However idk if it's my multimeter or the sensor.

04-02-2012, 11:42 AM	#1
pandrade 12psi boost Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: fort myers florida Posts: 345	Thanks for clearing that up. I was always curiouse to see if that was true and now I know it's not. I always assumed that if you had the blue classic plate you where exempt because here in my state at the Edison home all there classics don't have cats or any emissions control And there driving around. Well at least I can travle around the states knowing I would have to put my cats back, ( or my fake out cat ) to avoid a ticket. Thanks Cre __________________ 1987 7m-gte R-154, SS braided clutch line, full 3in exshaust,aluminum radiator,full throttle gen 2 whith GM 3 inch mass air flow,13lbs flywheel, and more to come

04-06-2012, 06:22 PM	#4
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	I don't think you understand the proper definition of "lean" and what ignition advance affects. Lean refers to your air to fuel mixture ratio. Ignition advance (dumbed down as "timing"; not the best term as there's more than one type of timing) refers to WHEN the fuel mixture is ignited. If you ignite the mixture too soon the engine soaks up more heat and the cooling system must evacuate it. If you ignite it too late the heat energy exits with the exhaust and the valve train, O2 sensor, turbo, cat must all deal with the extra wear and tear. Bumping the ignition timing beyond 14 isn't going to result in much difference if the O2 sensor checks out I would test the AFM and if that still good you may need to replace the cat. A lower octane fuel may help out as it's easier for the engine to burn... just baby it while it's in the tank. Make sure the O2 sensor is very well crimped in place and that you clear the codes before getting the vehicle tested again. Do NOT solder the wiring for an O2 sensor. The dissimilar metals may cause a dielectric reaction skewing the O2 readings significantly. The MKIII uses a narrow band sensor which uses very small voltage signals to determine if the mixture is stoichiometric and that random and tiny voltage spike from a dielectric connection could cause the readings to be significantly off. Do NOT reset the codes before testing.... give the car a day or two of MILD driving to learn the finer fuel adjustments needed for optimal power and emissions compatibility. You are VERY likely to fail on a car that in its learning mode if the sensors are all old and weathered. The code 51 doesn't mean a whole lot. Code 51 only means that the IDL switch wasn't closed when the diagnostic mode was running, the TPS isn't properly calibrated, you stepped on the throttle or the A/C was on. This code will clear automatically cone the offending trigger is resolved. A worn TPS shouldn't cause you to fail a test completely... it's a minor trim sensor. __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

04-06-2012, 07:34 PM	#6
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Advance too much and you may cause pinging which causes the ecu to reduce timing advance significantly and add fuel.... Shouldn't happen from advanced an ignition timing increase of only 3? though. The O2 sensor also has a specific operating temperature range which must be met. As mentioned timing affects exhaust temp, but again 3? should have ZERO effect. The only code stored was for the O2 sensor? Could have been knocking or excessive pinging. Is the mechanical timing spot on? When you say "leaned out" are you just using the wrong term for ignition advance? Or are you using a fuel controller and adjusting the fuel for a specific AFR (for which that term is applicable)? Remember, like I said, there's also the factor about the ECU needing a little time to learn the sensors and driving style. Also, make sure your spark plugs are in good shape and make sure there's no oil leaking in there with them. __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar ---> Last edited by cre; 04-06-2012 at 07:49 PM.

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04-06-2012, 05:02 PM	#2
Joefishizzle 3" Exhaust Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: California Posts: 105	okay so i leaned the car to about 11 as mentioned. took the car back, failed again, however i passed 15mph test and barelly failed the 25mph. so i leaned out to about 13 since my NOx was still low. smogged it this morning and the check engine light came on, and my CO and HC jumped back up to were they were. i got check engine 21 and 51. i think the O2 is an old code cause the new sensor was just put on, so 51....now i measured resistance and my values are way off according to cyngus manual. any help?

04-06-2012, 06:06 PM	#3
Joefishizzle 3" Exhaust Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: California Posts: 105	is there a way to adjust it? Or since my values weren't anywhere close does it need to be replaced?

04-06-2012, 06:40 PM	#5
Joefishizzle 3" Exhaust Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: California Posts: 105	Okay, well I don't understand what happened. I advanced timing first, numbers went down. Advanced a few more degrees, cel comes on and my numbers go back up

04-06-2012, 07:52 PM	#7
Joefishizzle 3" Exhaust Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: California Posts: 105	Yes I mechanically advanced the timing to 13. My o2 is brand new, I replaced the gasket on it. The code stored was 21, as he was doing the 25mph pull on the dyno the light came on. Code was 51. I checked resistance between terminals and got bad results. However idk if it's my multimeter or the sensor.