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haha im glad you didnt understand my stupidity. so i was actually trying to take off the hex bolts in the middle of the head.
then after frantic searching i realized these arent the head bolts................. the build goes on..... |
Ah, well that is good. I don't know why people seem to have so much trouble with those. Good luck with the real head bolts when you do get to them and remember to take them out in the correct order!
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Yes, there's an order (for both installation AND removal)... there's an order to the cam bearing caps as well.
Start here and keep reading: http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Librar...ection=EM&P=32 |
blown head gasket?
soooo we got the head off and the gasket actually doesnt look too bad. but then again theres alot of crap in my cylinders tho. pics......
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...adc5a66ce1.jpg http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...858d77189d.jpg man that TSRM helps alot. thanks. so yea everything looks pretty good. oh well time to continue with the build. timing cover, alternator brackets |
piston 2&3 are cracked
ok due to further inspection we noticed that the piston heads are actually cracked :(
it seems as if they were running like this for a while because there arent any pieces of metal in the cylinder, just metallic dust. jusdging by the look of the block and the cylinder head nothing is damaged. we are still unsure but if that was the only problem then we will just get new pistons, gaskets, and ARP head bolts and start with the re-assembly. |
Cracked piston... or pistonS (plural)? Either way at this point I would tear the whole thing apart. Metallic sparklies in the oil do not do good things for the bearings, oil pump, turbo... etc., etc....
Have any pics? |
pistons, 2 and 3. here are the picsssss
bout to remove the starter. http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...cc1ba46010.jpg cracked pistons.... ouch http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...6e0d8d3ada.jpg timing cover crap coming off (sorry if im not too literate with all the car terminology. i honestly know nothing about cars) http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...49deac38e1.jpg cover removed http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...2d4e473cf7.jpg taking off... whatever that is. http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...f2ffd0eab5.jpg lifted car up to disconnect http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...d7a44623ab.jpg so yes i am definitely going with the machine shop. too much metallic dust inside the block. soooo i have everything disconnected and the engine is now ready to be hauled out to a machine shop..... sweeeet |
Yeah, that need to go to the shop... that's terrible.
The "whatever that is" would be the block side of the water pump. ;) |
haha thanks cre.
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OUCH, melted pistons too. Actually from the initial pic of the block I was going to say it looked like the HG was dropping water into 1,2 & maybe 3 from the colours but now I see the melting it's probably just cooked white through running way lean/hot &/or pre-ignition (pinging I think it's known as in the U.S?)
Definitely a full stripdown job here, you'll be lucky if the bores aren't damaged from the meltdown & if it's got really hot the head & block may be warped. I can't remember now, was the car running when you bought it/until you stripped it? Must have been screaming for mercy for a while... Sorry to see it's that nasty & damn I hope there's nothing like that waiting in my motor! :eek3: EDIT-: OK I've reviewed the post & it WAS running when you bought it. How oh how was this thing not clacking & banging & rattling to high hell, not to mention running on 3 or 4? Best of luck with the rebuild, I think if I found that I'd just find another engine... |
yea strangly there was no noise or anything that made me curious aout the reliability of the car. and yea it ran fine for only having 4 pistons running. lol in fast i thought it was pretty fast too... i wonder if im gonna feel alot more power ofter this rebuild.
well the damage isnt bad at all and the rebuild kit that im getting has pistons included so it shouldnt be bad at all. overall costs of the shop are 565!!. sweeeeeet. so yea ill put some pics up soon. were about to get the hoist to lift this bad boy out. good thing i got temporarily laid off...... :( |
Good god.... if that sad engine left you feeling that the 3500lbs slab it was dragging around was fast... you might want to reconsider the rebuild and just swap in a nice rebuilt 4 cylinder from a Celica or something... I don't know if you'll be able to cope with much more. :bouncy:
No sounds... could be because it had finally finished coughing up chunks of lung and moved on the whole dying quietly stage. That thing was hurting... I'll be amazed if a complete rebuild isn't required (including boring the cylinders and polishing the crank). You already got the quote? $565 for what? |
Hahaha yea I might as well. I can't wait to drive it once its done.
The quote was for the valves, polish, shaving the head, and bored |
And you're doing all the assembly and disassembly I presume? If you're going to a metal head gasket find out what the finest RA they can produce is. Also make sure they machine the block WITH the rear timing belt plate in place!
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hey just wondering, which bolts are best for hoisting out the engine?
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not blown
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...24a0c9c7ff.jpg not blown..... http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...9885ffc5d7.jpg not blown................ http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...5796a3350d.jpg i kinda thought it was funny that i had all the symptoms of a BHG but i really didnt have one. after the engine already had 245,xxx miles..... but....... http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...053d956aa9.jpg it looks like the engine was rebuilt at one time. Clea engine bay, fairly clean parts. bolts missing in various places (someone wasnt very organized) very few bolts at the right torque setting cross hatched cylinders. WTF then why did the cylinders blow? im wondering the the heck this guy did wrong to make this thing crap out. maybe it was cause of the freeze plug, radiator, and leaking water pump. too much heat in the engine????? im lost....:eek3: but anyways we got the engine out and are proceeding with the rebuild... i dont think my girl trusts me to hoist out an engine..... http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...33bfd78ee9.jpg hoisting time..... http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...1ef86e9386.jpg ***tip**** to not waste time...... have all bolts disconnected from the transmission. including the ones on each side of the tranny that are REALLY hard to see. and remove flywheel from pressure plate. might save you a few ours instead of looking like an idiot...... :sadwavey: ok also. when getting that flywheel off. i dunno about you guys but a litle loving with electric dewalt impact got it off with no problems :) http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...6e2330868e.jpg i really hope i have time to clean the engine bay.... http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...93673ecc85.jpg i hate you mr. freeze plug http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...32eabc0497.jpg oh an in case your a newb like me and your reading this wondering why i had to use an impact for these little bolts? well as im torquing the bolts it keeps turning the crankshaft. Solution? turn the bolts faster than the crankshaft can turn. muahahahhahahahahaha...... http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...06ae909da5.jpg alright so tonight or tomorrow i will be taking off the crankshaft and organizing all my bolts (so i can head to the shop and buy the missing ones...grrrr). should be taking it to the shop tomorrow. i guess i should be buying new hoses and such soon. any recommendations? and any recommendations for a radiator? i kinda want something more efficient but not too much more expensive than factory. thanks for all of your help and input for those that have responded. its sad i only got to drive this beast for one day but hey, i cant wait toll this is all done. im going for a longgggggg drive. |
***tip***
so i know almost everyone knows this trick but i had to search a little to find it so i hope this helps anyone trying to do this. http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...67942b0086.jpg if your having trouble getting that big fat pully off, stick a flat bar inside the whole where the starter is and wedge it in the flywheel. tada!!! now you can get that dang bolt off. more info at..... http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/...-w-pics-2.html Well I finally got the crank bolt off. To anyone that wants to know how to do it I will tell you. First though, I would like to say what did not do it. 5 different impact guns-nope. Car in gear, ebrake on, someone standing on the brakes-nope. Did not get the chance to use the starter bump method. This is what works and what will work every single time-crowbar in the flywheel through the starter hole. Worked so good I think Im going to patent that procedure. Walked the crank pulley off with 2 flathead screw drivers. Had timing belt off in less than 5 minutes after that. I was messing with this crank bolt for 4 days, but now that its off the head is ready to be lifted off. I just don't have someone to help me lift it. I can do it myself, I bench over 205lbs atm, I just don't want to risk banging it into something like the radiator support or the fender. Loosened head bolts in the order shown in the TSRM and did it in 3 passes. Did not need the SST for the head bolts, a NAPA 10mm allen head socket worked just fine for $4.65. Will have pictures in 2 hours. Thanks for all the suggestions. -IHateHacks |
timing...
hey Cre,
do you know alot about timing? i was told i should time my vehicle for my driving style while its in this stage. is there a way to do that without getting adjustable cams? |
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Yeah, that freeze plug sure wasn't helping.... I'm surprised you never saw any coolant leaking. 600+ HP on a stock HG?! That'd be the day... well, maybe it'd last for 2, but that's about it. I wouldn't trust the stock HG for more than about 350RWHP... not if I wanted it to last (and that's pushing it as far as I'm concerned). Block and HG measurements are here: http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...sket+thickness As you don't know what's been previously taken off the block and head your machinist will need to measure both and you'll need to select a suitable head gasket after. NOTE: Composite (OEM) head gaskets are NOT reusable!!!! |
oh man... so we got to the machine shop and it turns out that the head is too warped and they cant shave any more off of the head. soooooo
i need a new head. found one on ebay for $400 but thats the cheapest i have found. and the build goes on.... |
ahhh cre you have convinced me to go MHG. im gonna get the HKS one. i talked to the shop and let him know, he said he just did a supra motor before mine and hes the best shop in town. :x: thing better be smooth.
he said hes also going to bore out the cylinders more for higher compression (since they are f'ed up anyways). im really tring to make sure i dont miss any mods that i could be doing at this stage since everything is taken apart, i just wish i had more money. i think the MHG is good too in case i do the turbo conversion later. but im seeing keeping it N/A as a challenge. believe it or not when i first got the car i only wanted a turbo and to hear the BOV. lol |
Careful... you have to have a PERFECT head and block deck for the HKS Stopper or it WILL blow! My recommendation would be the Cometic, still needs a VERY smooth surface but it is much more forgiving.
As for raising the compression ratio... it's a waste of money. There's almost no power to be had from it even if you bore it as far as is physically possible. Personally, I'd go for a lower CR and start working on a build which could support a turbo.... it's up to you though. Quote:
If you're planning on turboing this engine you need to do research into mods which will benefit the forced induction setup. If you are looking to go for an all-motor build (no turbo, no supercharger, etc.) than you need to plan your mods accordingly there too... there aren't a whole lot of internal engine mods which work well in BOTH situations other than forged internals (but you still need to pick because you'll need different pistons for each application), head porting and valve job and (argueably) custom cams.... but in the best situation you buy cams depending on the build. I do not recomment all-motor builds on the 7M-GE.... I know a few people who have spent an absolute fortune on their N/As to not even break 300HP at the wheels. They're not novices either and we're not talking stock-ish build... I'm talking completely custom cams and crankshafts, all forged internals, stupid high compression ratios, port and polish jobs, larger valves... the 7M is a GREAT engine for forced induction... it's miserable as a N/A; A fact which I finally accepted about two years ago. For the replacement head check out local salvage yards where you pull it yourself.... around here they charge $25 to $50 for a complete head... even if you go through 3 duds before buying a good one you're still coming out on top as opposed to what you're likely to pay on Craigslist or Ebay. |
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:eek2: man i hate being a newb. i guess there is a reason why most people has a tubo'd 7m. Quote:
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BTW Cre thanks for pretty much guiding me in this build. ive search like a mother but theres still alot i need to learn. |
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I very strongly recommend you find a complete MKIII with turbo from the factory... A GE-T build isn't the easiest/most reliable thing; There's a lot you're going to need otherwise and you'll be piecing things together for a while. (trust me on this ;) )
If you are still interested in going GE-T aka N/A-T then read through this thread: http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34560 My car is a N/A-T. I'm running a stock 7M-GE with a stock CT-26 turbo, custom full flow oil cooler with thermostat, 7M-GE electronics with a MAFT Pro for fuel, timing and boost control and AFM deletion, LC-1 wideband (for tuning and open loop AFR tracking via the MAFT Pro), and a matched set of injectors (less than .5% variance on average; actually, they're rated 520cc/min at 45psi but I'm running closer to the stock fuel pressure). I'm running a stock composite HG with ARP head bolts torqued to 75ft lbs. I'm still running on the W58 (I don't expect it to last too long). All in all I've got a lot invested in just the conversion.... then there's the supporting mods and maintenance. There are a lot of people who think "Oh, I'll just mount the turbo, swap injectors and add an intercooler."; sadly, their setups don't often last... sometimes they do, but I think that's more a matter of luck. I don't expect my setup to last more than a few years. If/when it does die I'll either buy a complete GTE and swap over what I want to keep; Or I'll move on completely and put the MKIII behind me. Oh, I'm not walking you through this.... I'm just bored... :naughty: |
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keep it N/A and thow pointless mods in it? or... turbo it and make sure its done right and baby it to hell so nothing blows? |
Okay, then I would talk to them about having the turbo's oil drain location drilled in the block; on the N/A it's not drilled. Draining to the oil pan, as most people do, isn't the best way to do it... it works if you get the drain in precisely the right location, but since they're already at work on it. The oil supply isn't a big deal.
How you proceed from here is really up to you. If you want to take the time and convert it to a N/A-T then go for it; It is fun. If you're building for it you can build it reliably... lower the compression ratio, drill the stock oil drain location, flush the block so that you're sure the oil supply passage for the turbo is free of obstruction, upgrade to GTE injectors or better, add a good fuel controller and get a good safe tune running. Just take your time and you can definitely build a very reliable N/A-T. I'd start with the engine itself and then worry about upgrades a bit at a time. You will lose power going to a lower compression before you add the turbo, but that's alright... The turbo is the last thing you'll add, BTW. |
*sigh* your totally right. seems liek the best way to do this is to wait till im done having the N/A. dont put too much money into the engine and work on other things. then when i feel like having more power i should swap in the gte and have it rebuilt. less head ache. less stress. less money too.
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Tell you what then, seeing as you're getting this block all sorted & you've tipped money into it already then how does this sound?
Pick up a complete turbo car that's either been wrapped round a tree etc, or got a rod through it's belly but good blower, hopefully good head & all the electronics & other bits you need to convert to GTE spec? Then get your man at the shop to drill the oil drain & flush the block as per cre, and instead of buying N/A pistons for whatever oversize the bores are at, just get Turbo ones. That way you get a good as new (better than new bearing in mind overbore) block & all the kit you need to make a real GTE motor... Plus you'll have a certain amount of other spares from the wreck which you can either swap to your car if better, or sell off to make some of your outlay back. |
If going turbo, I would definitely avoid boring the block unless it is absolutely required.
I recommend installing forged pistons and new stock rods (forged would be even better). Definitely install a GTE oil pump; it's a much higher flowing pump and you'll want it when you add oil cooler and turbo. Later I would install upgraded injectors and swap in GTE electronics and upgraded fuel pump. |
paint
Cre got a new avatar!! cool
so the build continues. just as promised my rebuild kit has come in. new pistons, gaskets, water pump and what-not. free 2 day shipping!!! $275 so due to this being my DD and my boss saying im gonna start work again soon, i decided to keep in N/A but going with Cre's advice i wont invest into this motor till i can get a new one and go turbo. after this build is dont ill invest in other things. soo today im going to the machine shop so i can drop off the pistons and they can test the cylinders and give me my block back! sweeeet. new head still hasnt come back yet. oh and since me and the lady are going to repaint the body eventually...... we got busy http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs042....9_198817_n.jpg http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._4499791_n.jpg covers look pretty dang good amazing having a girl that can wrench :drool: http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...c3b781beb5.jpg |
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more paint
prep work
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6077576_n.jpg http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._2963915_n.jpg and paint :) http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1885489_n.jpg man feels like my girl is doing most of the work..... my friend is talking about getting rid of his 1j and going 2j...... hmmmmm :naughty: |
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block is here. still waiting on the head and Techniques . pics up soon.
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movin along
man so this build is starting to get more and more intimidating. i just finished the block last night and the head should be in today. starting to get a little cold feet :p
oh yea, masking an engine is extremely easy and absolutely stress relieving. http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...cb95e115e1.jpg http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...7fc8417a82.jpg http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...5c8d88eb7c.jpg finished the coats at 1 am. :) http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...87a3052b08.jpg now i need to get puddy for the vacuum lines, bolts, and the crank. and im pretty sure im gonna need a butt load of grease for all these moving parts..... almost done :crazy2: |
delivery
head just came in. going to get the block ready tomorrow and throw it in. :) sweeeet :)
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