Stock Block

[TRAFIK]

Good Point

[SKILMATIC]

OMG! 40psi on the stock twins! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... that's the funniest thing I've ever heard. That's SO far out of their efficiency range it's rediculous. Even if you could get 40psi out of the oem twins without twisting their pencil-thin shafts to licorice...at that boost level they're super-heating the air, so you get more volume&pressure without any additional horsepower-producing oxygen.

How is that so rediculous? Did you know the turbo used on the evo stock which is a 16g boosts 19psi and the hot side and the ar housing and turbine wheel are smaller than the ct26 ? So why would a smaller turbo be able to put out more power? Maybe you need to clue yourself in on facts instead of what you want to believe. Also I dont know how afluent you are on turbocharging and boosting but the more pressure and heat you get the better AS FAR AS THE HOT SIDE IS CONCERNED. Now as far as oxygen is concerned you should be getting plenty as a turbo is designed to suck it in. I dont quite follow you on this. Could you please explain better? Remember a turbo mixes exhaust gases into the ambient air form the intake charge. So oxygen isnt a problem.

...oh, and sorry to be the one clue you into the fact that turbo pressure isn't additive.

Huh? When did I say it was an additive? Pressure exists all around us.

In order to get 40psi out of the stock twins, they'd BOTH have to be pushing 40psi (not 20psi each LOL ).

BWAHAHAHA umm.. incase you didnt know hey are sequential turbos and in a sequential setup you add the psi on each turbo to determine the total psi. Ask any professional technician that. A matter of fact call toyota up right now and ask them. If they were boosting 40psi each that would mean the engine would have a total boost of 80psi. One turbine spins on the lower rpms and when that boost tapers off the other turbo kicks in and finishes the job throughout the rpm band. Thus rendering the turbo setup to be added because they are in sequence of each other.

Like I said, if YOU think that YOU can build a 640rwhp Mkiv Supra TT (stock twins), with a bone-stock 2jz-gte bottom end (even if you do cams, oversize valves or WHATEVER to the 2jz-gte head)...

I never said over sized valves. I said angle cut valves. Please brush up on your knowledge of machine work.

Again I dont need luck when its been done before with pure mathematics. Thats all engines are. Engines were built on the concept of mathematics. And so is every turbo system or blower system out there.

If you seriously tell me a mere 20psi to a ct26 is impossible while a 16g turbo can produce a 19psi stock then you sir are the laughing stock. I tell you what when I find that article I would appreciate it if you would renounce all your mubo jumbo. hahahha

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

How is that so rediculous? Did you know the turbo used on the evo stock which is a 16g boosts 19psi and the hot side and the ar housing and turbine wheel are smaller than the ct26 ? So why would a smaller turbo be able to put out more power? Maybe you need to clue yourself in on facts instead of what you want to believe. Also I dont know how afluent you are on turbocharging and boosting but the more pressure and heat you get the better AS FAR AS THE HOT SIDE IS CONCERNED. Now as far as oxygen is concerned you should be getting plenty as a turbo is designed to suck it in. I dont quite follow you on this. Could you please explain better?...

Who is talking about the hot side? It's the compressor sides of the oem 2jz-gte turbos that are far out of their efficiency range at 40psi. The compressor wheel would be spinning so fast that friction with the air would produce more heat than dense airflow. In other words, beyond its efficiency point the turbo only heats the air - it doesn't force more oxygen into the cylinders.

Also be warned (again) that if you try to push 40psi from the stock twins they'll grenade. The shafts aren't thick enough to tolerate that much stress.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

Remember a turbo mixes exhaust gases into the ambient air form the intake charge. So oxygen isnt a problem...

Upon which restroom wall did you read that 'gem' of turbocharging technology? Do you even know what a turbocharger is? Based on your post, I seriously doubt it.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Huh? When did I say it was an additive? Pressure exists all around us...

You said the pressure from two turbos running in parallel is additive. 20psi+20psi=40psi ... additive. Get it? ...and as a reminder, in response I said no way in hell.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...incase you didnt know hey are sequential turbos and in a sequential setup you add the psi on each turbo to determine the total psi. Ask any professional technician that. A matter of fact call toyota up right now and ask them. If they were boosting 40psi each that would mean the engine would have a total boost of 80psi...

Tell ya what sport...you call Toyota and you ask them. Or better yet, why don't you call up anyone that has ever built a bpu++++ Supra and ask them if 40psi can be produced by the stock twins.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...One turbine spins on the lower rpms and when that boost tapers off the other turbo kicks in and finishes the job throughout the rpm band. Thus rendering the turbo setup to be added because they are in sequence of each other...

The sequential system on the Mkiv Supra works (roughly) as follows:
1) Exhaust gasses from all 6 cylinders spool up one of the two identically-sized turbos...it produces boost all by itself until about 3500rpms.
2) At about 3500 rpms, the exhaust gasses are transitioned to run through both of the identically sized turbos, and they both run simultaneously to produce the total boost and the total airflow through the charge-air system.
In other words, the two identically-sized turbochargers work together to produce the cfm's necessary (for example) for 20psi while the engine spins at (for example) 5500 rpms on a bpu++++ Mkiv Supra.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...I never said over sized valves. I said angle cut valves. Please brush up on your knowledge of machine work...

I know EXACTLY what you said, since I have both a seven-angle job (cut on a Serdi machine) AND oversize valves on the 2jz-gte head that's in my Supra. YOU need to brush up on YOUR reading skills because I said no matter WHAT you do to the 2jz-gte head, you won't make 650rwhp using the oem twins alone.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Again I dont need luck when its been done before with pure mathematics. Thats all engines are. Engines were built on the concept of mathematics. And so is every turbo system or blower system out there. ...

Why is your math so far off then? 650rwhp with only the oem twins on a stock 2jz-gte has never been done, and it will never be done. Prove me wrong by either finding an example of someone that's already done it (not gonna happen), or buying your own Supra and making it happen, or stfu. Spreading your fantasy-land garbage 'information' about 650rwhp on stock twins is polluting this forum with nonsense.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...If you seriously tell me a mere 20psi to a ct26 is impossible while a 16g turbo can produce a 19psi stock then you sir are the laughing stock. I tell you what when I find that article I would appreciate it if you would renounce all your mubo jumbo.

I didn't say 20psi is impossible. I said 40psi is impossible with a stock 2jz-gte's oem twins, and I said that that turbo pressure is NOT additive. Just because ONE turbo alone can make 19psi, doesn't mean that two of them together on that same engine can make 38psi. Again, learn to read.

You're also wrong because men that are much more skilled and knowledgeable than you (apparently) are have spent thousands of $ and years of time maxing out what they could achieve with the oem twins before they went to a single turbo to get the results they were looking for. Open your mind and learn something! I really don't give a rat's @ss if you want to live in ignorance, but for the sake of the others on this forum that are trying to learn something, don't try and BS your way out of this. It's not about an ego trip, it's about learning. Ask some questions and I'll give you honest, complete answers. Try to BS and pretend you know what you're talking about and things are only going to get worse for you.

Also, none of what I'm saying is "mumbo jumbo". I've owned an Mkiv Supra since 1994, and I've been deeply involved in the Supra community since 1998. I've built SEVERAL bpu++++ and apu Supras. Have you ever even ridden in one?

[suprra_girl]

good posts & discussion

cliffnotes

stock 2j turbos = 40psi = no
stock ct26 starts blowing hot air at 14psi
it could probly do 20 psi but there would not be any gains other than requiring a rebuild

my 2psi worth

[SKILMATIC]

It's the compressor side of the ct26 that is far out of it's efficiency range at 40psi.

So then you are telling me that a bigger turbo produces less power? Please tell me is that what you are saying?

Also be warned (again) that if you try to push 40psi from the stock twins they'll grenade. The shafts aren't thick enough to tolerate that much stress.

And you know this how? Please submit a link for me where it says that the ct26 is rendered useless at 20psi. You do this I will shut up. I promise.

Upon which restroom wall did you read that 'gem' of turbocharging technology? Do you even know what a turbocharger is? Based on your post, I seriously doubt it.

I think it was yo mamas. haha And likewise.

You said the pressure from two turbos running in parallel is additive. 20psi+20psi=40psi ... additive. Get it? ...and as a reminder, in response I said no way in hell.

Umm you said boost isnt an additive. Which didnt mean what you just said. You should have said that the boost levels that each turbo puts out isnt a sum of each other. Which they are because they are sequential. As a mkiv owner you should know this. Now conventoional twin turbos such as on v8's or v6's arent sequential rendering the boost output the same as one turbos boost level. I think you are a little confused in this area.

Tell ya what sport...you call Toyota and you ask them. Or better yet, why don't you call up anyone that has ever built a bpu++++ Supra and ask them if 40psi can be produced by the stock twins.

I already have which is why I know. I wanted to know because a friend of mine wasnt sure if his ct26's were able to withstand more boost via his boost controller. So we called and talked to a technician. Which is why I told you to call them. Hey if the dealer is on my side along with a 20yr career technician for toyota then I have no problems haha. But the again you are probably a master tech for toyota and claim to own 2 mkiv's and a toyota team with lots of buddies who idolize you. Sounds about right?

The sequential system on the Mkiv Supra works (roughly) as follows:
1) Exhaust gasses from all 6 cylinders spool up one of the two identically-sized turbos...it produces boost all by itself until about 3500rpms.
2) At about 3500 rpms, the exhaust gasses are transitioned to run through both of the identically sized turbos, and they both run simultaneously to produce the total boost and the total airflow through the charge-air system.
In other words, the two identically-sized turbochargers work together to produce the cfm's necessary (for example) for 20psi while the engine spins at (for example) 5500 rpms on a bpu++++ Mkiv Supra.

Ok...

I know EXACTLY what you said, since I have both a seven-angle job (cut on a Serdi machine) AND oversize valves on the 2jz-gte head that's in my Supra. YOU need to brush up on YOUR reading skills because I said no matter WHAT you do to the 2jz-gte head, you won't make 640rwhp using the oem twins alone.

Ok then I never said bigger valves why would you just add that in there? That doesnt make any sense. And I noticed you entioned serdi machine. May I ask what kind?

Why is your math so far off then?

Its not. Again let em use the example of the evo. A 2.0l with a single turbo @ 19psi puts out around 280hp. The 2jz which has a larger displacement and bigger turbo not to mention 2 of them can easily achieve a 600 benchmark.

I would also appreciate it if you could also submit a link for your rhetoric as well. And furthermore you dont need to act like a 5yr old kid. If you say you own a mkiv then i would think you would have enough self respect and maturity to have a formidable conversation or debate. You have around 10 posts I have around 10times that. I have never met someone on this forum who is so defensive as you are. I dont know if its because you have a smallpenis or you are you have small mans syndrome or what. But in all fairness to the forum I would appreciate it if you treated people with respect even though you dont agree with them. If you dont agree with someone then prove your point and do so in a mature and formidable fashion. Is that too much to ask?

I didn't say 20psi is impossible. I said 40psi is impossible with a stock 2jz-gte's oem twins, and I said that that turbo pressure is NOT additive. Just because ONE turbo alone can make 19psi, doesn't mean that two of them together on that same engine can make 38psi. Again, learn to read.

O I can read perfectly fine. Its when people post things that dont make sense is when I have trouble reading. So youre saying 20 psi from a single ct26 isnt possible?

You're also wrong because men that are much more skilled and knowledgeable than you (apparently) are have spent thousands of $ and years of time maxing out what they could achieve with the oem twins before they went to a single turbo to get the results they were looking for. Open your mind and learn something! I really don't give a rat's @ss if you want to live in ignorance, but for the sake of the others on this forum that are trying to learn something, don't try and BS your way out of this. It's not about an ego trip, it's about learning. Ask some questions and I'll give you honest, complete answers. Try to BS and pretend you know what you're talking about and things are only going to get worse for you.

Also, none of what I'm saying is "mumbo jumbo". I've owned an Mkiv Supra since 1994, and I've been deeply involved in the Supra community since 1998. I've built SEVERAL bpu++++ and apu Supras. Have you ever even ridden in one?

Let me educate you on the real world son. In order to gain any sort of respect form people it is earned not given. And when you start acting like and petruding yourself to be an a$$hole is when you are looked upon as one. All this flame talk isnt impressive behind a keyboard and computer screen. I can say anything I want over a freaking screen. Its much easier to lose face and act like a idiot then stay calm and focused and act like normal human beings. Can we please have a meaningful discussion about this or are you going to progress yourself to be an a$$hole? Please choose wisely.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

So then you are telling me that a bigger turbo produces less power? Please tell me is that what you are saying?...

Again, I'm saying the 2jz-gte oem twins can't push 40psi and they can't push enough air to produce 650rwhp either. That seems pretty clear to the others on this thread - why can't you seem to grasp that?

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...And you know this how? Please submit a link for me where it says that the ct26 is rendered useless at 20psi. You do this I will shut up. I promise...

There is no such link. The TWO oem twins TOGETHER push 20psi just fine. Hell, you *might* even get one of the 2jz-gte's oem turbos to push 19 or 20psi on a 2jz-gte. But there's no way in the world that those two oem 2jz-gte twins will ever push 40psi. It just can't be done.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...I think it was yo mamas. haha And likewise...

Seriously dude, you said "Remember a turbo mixes exhaust gases into the ambient air form the intake charge. So oxygen isnt a problem...". If that was anything but a joke, you really do have NO idea how turbochargers work.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Umm you said boost isnt an additive. Which didnt mean what you just said. You should have said that the boost levels that each turbo puts out isnt a sum of each other. Which they are because they are sequential. As a mkiv owner you should know this...

Airflow is additive. Boost level is not. YOU need to get that straight.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Now conventional twin turbos such as on v8's or v6's arent sequential rendering the boost output the same as one turbos boost level. I think you are a little confused in this area...

Again, you're completely off base. Whether you run twin turbos conventional or sequential, they're both running together at the high end in both systems. It's also very easy to convert the Mkiv Supra's sequential system into a full-time parallel (TTC=true twin conversion http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/ttc/ttc.htm) ... if you perform this conversion, the 'conventional' twin turbos and the Mkiv's twin turbos operate identically... and you STILL won't make 40psi of boost.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...I already have which is why I know. I wanted to know because a friend of mine wasnt sure if his ct26's were able to withstand more boost via his boost controller. So we called and talked to a technician. Which is why I told you to call them...

Give me the """"technician"""s contact info. I'll be happy to educate him as well.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Hey if the dealer is on my side along with a 20yr career technician for toyota then I have no problems haha...

Unfortunately, many Toyota techs know little or nothing about the Supra. It's such a rare car that dealers' mechanics know very little about them. After you've worked on 10,000 Camry's and 20,000 4-runners, who can remember the ins and outs of the one or two Mkiv Supras a year that they might work on? How many dealers are there nationwide? ...and how many Mkiv Supra TT's were imported into the US between '93 and '98? ...and how many of those Mkiv Supra TT owners NEVER take their Mkiv Supras to Toyota techs because they have no idea how to work on them? You do the math...

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...But the again you are probably a master tech for toyota and claim to own 2 mkiv's and a toyota team with lots of buddies who idolize you. Sounds about right?...

Actually no. Fwiw, I'm just another guy that has studied up on the car that he owns, and tries to help fellow Supra owners.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Ok then I never said bigger valves why would you just add that in there? That doesnt make any sense...

It's simply an example of something you might do, in the extreme, if you were trying to get the 2jz-gte head to flow a bit more with the stock twins. If you want to eliminate that from the equation, then no problem. Go ahead. Use oem-sized valves. You still won't make 40psi or 650rwhp.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Its not. Again let em use the example of the evo. A 2.0l with a single turbo @ 19psi puts out around 280hp. The 2jz which has a larger displacement and bigger turbo not to mention 2 of them can easily achieve a 600 benchmark...

NO IT CAN'T! Lots of very skilled people have tried and it won't push more than 500rwhp. If the hard work of literally hundreds of Mkiv Supra owners and shops won't convince you, then buy a Supra and prove it! Until then, you're leading guys like Evilfurby down the garden path with misinformation to grandiose unrealistic expectations.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...I would also appreciate it if you could also submit a link for your rhetoric as well...

What link? You're the one that is trying to tell Evilfurby and everyone else here that a 97 Mkiv TT Supra can make 650hp with the stock twins and a stock shortblock. How can I send you a link to something that doesn't exist? It's never been done! Not even close. It's like you asking me to post a link to the dna code for a six headed unicorn. Sorry bub, I just can't 'cause there ain't no such thang. The burden of proof is on you to prove that 650rwhp on 2jz-gte oem twins only and oem shortblock is possible, as you claim.



There is a somewhat-related link that is somewhat relevant, but unfortunately it's down at the moment. When it was up it showed the very best-ever dyno runs for bpu++++ Mkiv Supras with the stock twins ...all in the high 400's rwhp range:

http://www.moreboost.org/turbo_detail.htm

...and there are many other forums and mailing lists out there dedicated to the Mkiv Supra. Why not join them and learn something? PM me if you'd like the links to them (I'm not sure if this forum allows links to competing forums or not).

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...If you dont agree with someone then prove your point and do so in a mature and formidable fashion. Is that too much to ask?...

I've repeatedly proven my point, and you keep trying to BS your way out of it. Back off and admit you're in over your head.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...O I can read perfectly fine. Its when people post things that dont make sense is when I have trouble reading. So youre saying 20 psi from a single ct26 isnt possible?...

Get this through your head. I never said 20psi is impossible from either a single one or a pair of the oem 2jz-gte twins. I said 40psi is impossible from the oem twins. I also said 650rwhp is impossible using the oem twins alone. Why are you being so pig-headed about that?

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Can we please have a meaningful discussion about this...

I've done nothing other than provide hard data about why what you're saying is completely wrong. If you were even close to on-base I'd love to try to find some sort of middle ground where we could agree...but 650rwhp on oem 2jz-gte twins and an oem shortblock? ...give me a break.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Please choose wisely.

Lol. Intentionally posting misinformation is a serious offense on most forums. If you don't have any idea how to answer a question, I'd advise you to stay off the thread.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by suprra_girl

good posts & discussion

cliffnotes

stock 2j turbos = 40psi = no
stock ct26 starts blowing hot air at 14psi
it could probly do 20 psi but there would not be any gains other than requiring a rebuild

my 2psi worth

Well there's a little more to it.

Bpu+++ Mkiv Supras often push more than 20psi of air, but there are diminishing gains due to the hot air problem.

With race fuel, these boost levels are possible without risk of rebuild.

[SKILMATIC]

Seriously dude, you said "Remember a turbo mixes exhaust gases into the ambient air form the intake charge. So oxygen isnt a problem...". If that was anything but a joke, you really do have NO idea how turbochargers work.

To properly, adequately, and fully explain how a turbo works would take a book. No one person can fully explain how it works in a page on a forum. Its a very vague explanation. Does not a turbo mix exhaust gases with outside air which happens to be about 25% oxygen? If you say no to that then you have NO idea how they work. Yes I may have missed a ton of info explaining how they work but so have you in all your posts. The info is insurmountable.

Airflow is additive. Boost level is not. YOU need to get that straight.

Dont you need air to make boost(pressure)? So how can one thing that is essential be an additive and the other can not? Let me put this to you in laymans terms. You have a C17 which is equipped with 4 PW-100 pratt and whittney turbine engines. Now a turbine engine acts much like as a turbine used in a car. There are very many similarities and a few obvious differences. Now each PW-100 produces 41,000pds of thrust with a bypass ratio of 5.9:1 and overall pressure ratio of 30.8:1. So you mean to tell me that even though one turbine engine produces 41,000pds of thrust and you have 4 of them you only get 41,000pds of thrust total? Try telling that to my aerospace propulsion professor.

Heres another example. Take 2 fire hoses at the same pressure rate releasing the same fluid into a pool. Now just take one fire hose at the same pressure as the other 2 with the same fluid that is filling a separate but equal sized pool. Now tell me what pool will be filled with more water after the same time has passed? The answer is obvious. Now the water in the pool represents the air in the cylinders negated by pressure. It is because you have more than one hose(aka turbine) which adds to the pressure and the volume of water(aka air) that is entering the cylinders. One hose's pressure isnt the same as 2 equal hoses's pressure. Thats like saying My 2 supersoaker 1000's are the same as your 1 supersoaker 1000.

Unfortunately, many Toyota techs know little or nothing about the Supra. It's such a rare car that dealers' mechanics know very little about them. After you've worked on 10,000 Camry's and 20,000 4-runners, who can remember the ins and outs of the one or two Mkiv Supras a year that they might work on?

I guess your right here. But with a tech that has been with toyota for 20yrs and with over 10yrs of the 2jz being in existance you would figure he woudl know something about it. But 20000camrys is a headache to even begin to think of.

I've repeatedly proven my point and you keep trying to BS your way out of it. Back off and admit you're in over your head.

Again this is a whole point of a debate. You cant just say your point and then be like"ok now that ive said it bow down to me and back off." As much as you would like this to happen its not going to especially when you are wrong. hehe I know I am a stinker aint I? hahahaha

Actually no. Fwiw, I'm just another guy that has studied up on the car that he owns, and tries to help fellow Supra owners.

Now see that was nice. Keep that up.

It's simply an example of something you might do, in the extreme, if you were trying to get the 2jz-gte head to flow a bit more with the stock twins. If you want to eliminate that fromt he equation, then no problem. Go ahead. Use oem-sized valves. You still won't make 40psi or 640rwhp.

You can get the most power from cam tuning. If you can get a cam that is specifically designed for boost which means the longest duration possible thats where you can get the most airflow. Angle cut valves have their effect when the valve is shut. IMO it is a great mod to have. It has even been known to create a small but noticeable venturi effect within the chambers for better and easier combustion.

NO IT CAN'T! Lots of very skilled people have tried and it won't push more than 500rwhp. If you're convinced, then buy a Supra and prove it! Until then, you're leading guys like Evilfurby down the garden path with misinformation to grandiose unrealistic expectations.

First off nothing is impossible when it comes to motors and power. If you have the money you can make a ford pinto do 9's in the quarter mile. Trust me I have seen it. Secondly, because of that I havent led anyone down any wrong path. Maybe for cost efficiency I have, but if it was up to me I would just upgrade to one big turbo application.

Why are you being so pig-headed about that?

Hey did we just not have a talk about the flaming? If you want to carry on flaming people you will get nowhere with your discussions. Again please try to have a formidable discussion with me. Thank you

I've done nothing other than provide hard data about why what you're saying is completely wrong. If you were even close to on-base I'd love to try to find some sort of middle ground where we could agree...but 640rwhp on oem 2jz-gte twins and an oem shortblock? ...give me a break.

Just because it hasnt been done before doesnt mean it cant be. Before the wright brothers invented the airplane people thought that flying was impossible. Boy where they wrong werent they? So just becasue you dont know of its existance doesnt mean it cant be done.

Lol. Intentionally posting misinformation is a serious offense on most forums. If you don't have any idea how to answer a question, I'd advise you to stay off the thread.

IN most forums flaming isnt tolerated period. You have made quite a debut here as someone who flames. The mods and everyone else is watching you. I on the other hand have been here awhile. I have admitted when I was wrong and I have had plenty of great discussions and debates with people. If I was full of BS and grandeur rhetoric I would have been gone long ago.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

To properly, adequately, and fully explain how a turbo works would take a book. No one person can fully explain how it works in a page on a forum. Its a very vague explanation. Does not a turbo mix exhaust gases with outside air which happens to be about 25% oxygen? If you say no to that then you have NO idea how they work. Yes I may have missed a ton of info explaining how they work but so have you in all your posts. The info is insurmountable...

It's also a book you CLEARLY have not read yourself. NO, a turbocharger does NOT mix any exhaust gas with the outside air. The hot side (turbine) and the cold side (compressor) are completely independent of each other except for a solid, oil-cooled&lubed shaft on bearings which connects the wheels on each side. 100% of the exhaust gas that enters the exhaust housing leaves through the exhaust pipe. You'll find that, and much more newbie info on turbocharging here:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo4.htm

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Dont you need air to make boost(pressure)? So how can one thing that is essential be an additive and the other can not? Let me put this to you in laymans terms. You have a C17 which is equipped with 4 PW-100 pratt and whittney turbine engines. Now a turbine engine acts much like as a turbine used in a car. There are very many similarities and a few obvious differences. Now each PW-100 produces 41,000pds of thrust with a bypass ratio of 5.9:1 and overall pressure ratio of 30.8:1. So you mean to tell me that even though one turbine engine produces 41,000pds of thrust and you have 4 of them you only get 41,000pds of thrust total? Try telling that to my aerospace propulsion professor...

Whether you're talking about 328,000pds of thrust from four PW-100's, or 40psi on a stock 2jz-gte from its twin turbos, the result is the same...it's a goal that's beyond the capabilities of those devices.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Heres another example. Take 2 fire hoses at the same pressure rate releasing the same fluid into a pool. Now just take one fire hose at the same pressure as the other 2 with the same fluid that is filling a separate but equal sized pool. Now tell me what pool will be filled with more water after the same time has passed? The answer is obvious. Now the water in the pool represents the air in the cylinders negated by pressure. It is because you have more than one hose(aka turbine) which adds to the pressure and the volume of water(aka air) that is entering the cylinders. One hose's pressure isnt the same as 2 equal hoses's pressure. Thats like saying My 2 supersoaker 1000's are the same as your 1 supersoaker 1000...

No it's not. You're trying to say that two supersoaker 1000's (or two fire hose PUMPs) can flow twice as much water by pumping them at twice their optimal efficiency rate. Unfortunately that's not true and neither is producing 40psi from oem 2jz-gte twins.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Again this is a whole point of a debate. You cant just say your point and then be like"ok now that ive said it bow down to me and back off." As much as you would like this to happen its not going to especially when you are wrong. hehe I know I am a stinker aint I? ...

I agree that you're stubborn. Imho you're also severely underinformed about turbocharging, which imho makes your conclusions about what's capable with a stock 2jz-gte and its oem twin turbos boarderline delusional.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Now see that was nice. Keep that up...

If the world was filled with closed-minded know-it-alls like you, I'm not sure I would. Fortunately, most other folks actually appreciate it when an experienced resource shares facts and hard-earned knowledge.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...You can get the most power from cam tuning. If you can get a cam that is specifically designed for boost which means the longest duration possible thats where you can get the most airflow. Angle cut valves have their effect when the valve is shut. IMO it is a great mod to have. It has even been known to create a small but noticeable venturi effect within the chambers for better and easier combustion...

First of all, the oem 2jz-gte cams ARE already designed for boost. Secondly, the oem 2jz-gte valves and valve seats ARE already angle-cut. Lastly, whether you put 256, 264, 272 or 280 degree cams on the 2jz-gte head, you're still not going to get 650rwhp out of a stock 2jz-gte with stock twins alone, on any octane of regular or racing gasoline. Not in a million years.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...First off nothing is impossible when it comes to motors and power. If you have the money you can make a ford pinto do 9's in the quarter mile. Trust me I have seen it...

I agree with you on this one point BUT you said that a specific goal was attainable with a VERY tight set of conditions. With those conditions (650rwhp, oem 2jz-gte, stock bottom end, stock twins, no nos, gasoline), you've painted yourself into a corner - it just can't be done.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Hey did we just not have a talk about the flaming? If you want to carry on flaming people you will get nowhere with your discussions. Again please try to have a formidable discussion with me. Thank you...

Pig-headed=stubborn. It's a common definition...and if the shoe fits, wear it.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Just because it hasnt been done before doesnt mean it cant be. Before the wright brothers invented the airplane people thought that flying was impossible. Boy where they wrong werent they? So just becasue you dont know of its existance doesnt mean it cant be done...

The Wright brothers weren't constrained in their problem to try to force propellors that were designed to be most efficient producing 20 pounds of thrust if they needed 40...being engineers, they'd have known that spinning that propellor twice as fast won't produce twice the thrust. Again, you've painted yourself into a corner with this problem. An oem 2jz-gte's oem twins just won't and can't feasibly produce 40psi of useable & reliable boost. With those oem twins as the only horsepower adder, you'll never get 650rwhp out of a stock 2jz-gte either.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...IN most forums flaming isnt tolerated period. You have made quite a debut here as someone who flames. The mods and everyone else is watching you. I on the other hand have been here awhile. I have admitted when I was wrong and I have had plenty of great discussions and debates with people. If I was full of BS and grandeur rhetoric I would have been gone long ago.

My posts are not intended as flames. They're intended to accurately and efficiently call out the misinformation you're attempting to spread. I encourage the scrutiny and involvement of the mods on this thread and any/all of my posts. I'd much rather be banned doing what I can to help the Supra community by calling out your misinformation ... than compromise my own integrity by pretending you didn't just lie about a Supra being able to make 650rwhp on stock twins and a stock block.

If the mods are the reasonable, knowledgeable people (and I assume they are), you're at a much greater risk of being warned if you don't come clean here.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Secondly, because of that I havent led anyone down any wrong path. Maybe for cost efficiency I have,...

FINALLY a glimmer of the REAL truth comes out!

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...but if it was up to me I would just upgrade to one big turbo application...

That's not what you said. You said a '97 mkiv Supra Turbo, using it's oem twin turbos and a stock 2jz-gte block, "can easily squeeze out 650rwhp". In the quote above, it appears that you've admitted that, for all you know for sure, you were completely wrong when you stated that rwhp figure. I sincerely hope this means that we can end our ""formidable discussion"" now.

[Dboz]

just a question

whats the difference of the the CT26 turbo from a MR2 and a CT26 from a supra..

the CT26 from a MR2 is junk IMO.. CT20B is the 3rd gen 3sgte turbo and that still cant do more then 300whp.. on a 3sgte