2JZGE to 2JZGTE Swap Questions

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

Wait a second, I never said I have or am going to buy a Supra Turbo with a W58, lol. I know that the V160 is the ultimate tranny for the Supra Turbo, no doubt about that. Reason why I asked is because, I have the option of buying a stunningly beautiful JDM '93 RZ 6MT BPU++ or wickedly beautiful JDM '95 SZ turned RZ 5MT APU+. The '95 Turbo with 5MT just makes me wonder what the torque and HP characteristics are since it's unusual for the "Big Boss" GTE to be mated to what was designed for the "Boss" GE. I'm already leaning towards the '93 but, it's still a hard choice to make...

The previous owner of the '95 Supra clearly had the money to buy a Getrag if he wished but, since he didn't, perhaps it was built stronger or just his preference...

Glad you're leaning towards not buying the SZ->RZ APU+ "Supra Turbo with a W58" 5MT . I'd be worried about what else wasn't upgraded on the SZ, like the brakes, ignition, suspension, etc.

[[SupraLEGEND]]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Glad you're leaning towards not buying the SZ->RZ APU+ "Supra Turbo with a W58" 5MT . I'd be worried about what else wasn't upgraded on the SZ, like the brakes, ignition, suspension, etc.

Hehe, thought you'd say that. Alas, I am very impressed by the quality tuning work done on the Red Supra. Everything you mentioned has been given careful attention to. Would you like to know the list of mods to get an idea of what exactly has been done?? (You know you want to...) Of course, I'll give you the full run down of the RZ 6MT's upgrades as well which are oh, so nice

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

Hehe, thought you'd say that. Alas, I am very impressed by the quality tuning work done on the Red Supra. Everything you mentioned has been given careful attention to. Would you like to know the list of mods to get an idea of what exactly has been done?? (You know you want to...) Of course, I'll give you the full run down of the RZ 6MT's upgrades as well which are oh, so nice

Absolutely! ...looking forward to it.

[[SupraLEGEND]]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Absolutely! ...looking forward to it.

Glad to hear it - here you go

'93 Supra RZ 6MT upgrades:

• ONE OWNER,
• FULL BODY KIT,
• HKS MUFFLER,
• BLITZ AIR FILTER,
• APEX'i REV & SPEED METER,
• HKS COIL OVER SUSPENSION KIT,
• RACING BLOW OFF VALVE,
• SPARCO OZ RACING "SUPERTURISMO" RACING SEAT X 2PCS,
• ALUMINUM 3 LAYER RADIATOR,
• BOOST GAUGE,
• TURBO TIMER,
• MOMO RACING STEERING WHEEL,
• 18" RACING ALLOYS

Mileage is a super low 65 000kms (sorry, not sure what that is in miles but either way, it is very low!!) As it is now, she produces an even bigger than stock HP at 336+.

'95 Supra RZ 5MT upgrades:

• FULL BODY KIT,
• GANADOR CARBON AERO MIRRORS,
• RACING BRAKE PADS,
• STAINLESS MESH BRAKE LINE,
• GT WING,
• LED TAIL LIGHT,
• HKS F-CON IS FUEL AND IGNITION TIMING COMPUTER,
• SARD RACING FUEL PUMP,
• TRUST RACING INTERCOOLER,
• TRUST OIL COOLER,
• HKS EVC5 BOOS CONTROLLER,
• FRONT PIPE,
• TRUST AIR FILTER,
• MUFFLER,
• OHLINS COIL OVER SUSPENSION,
• TRD 1,5WAY LSD,
• RACING CLUTCH,
• RACING BRAKE PADS,
• BRIDE "LOW MAX" HYBRID RACING SEAT,
• CARBON FIBER DETAILING ON THE DASH,
• TRD 320KM/H SPEEDOMETER,
• WORK XD9 18" RACING ALLOYS

Engine has just 63 000kms on the clock (super low!!)
Setup for a maximum of 1.2kg boost. Currently running at 1.0kg on stock twins (sorry, not sure about the PSi equivalent...). Clearly pushing out even more serious power than she does stock although I'm not sure of the actual figure.

As you can see they are both modified but, the red one has more mods. Excellent parts from excellent brands, professionally installed and setup. They are both giving me almost sleepless nights with excitement

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...'93 Supra RZ 6MT upgrades:

• (I've deleted non-performance modifications)
• ...HKS MUFFLER,
• BLITZ AIR FILTER,
• HKS COIL OVER SUSPENSION KIT,
• RACING BLOW OFF VALVE,
• ALUMINUM 3 LAYER RADIATOR,
• BOOST GAUGE,
• 18" RACING ALLOYS

...As it is now, she produces an even bigger than stock HP at 336+...

Actually the oem Mkiv Supra Turbo typically dyno'd at about 320rwhp brand-new (US-spec)...which is about 375hp at the crank. Really.
Other critiques (just being honest here): This really is just a 'bpu' Supra, missing a downpipe, missing a BCC or FCD, and missing a boost controller. You'll need to add those two mods just to get it up to 'stage 1' - right now it's at about stage 0.5 . Sorry.

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...'95 Supra RZ 5MT upgrades:

• RACING BRAKE PADS,
• STAINLESS MESH BRAKE LINE,
• HKS F-CON IS FUEL AND IGNITION TIMING COMPUTER,
• SARD RACING FUEL PUMP,
• TRUST RACING INTERCOOLER,
• TRUST OIL COOLER,
• HKS EVC5 BOOS CONTROLLER,
• FRONT PIPE,
• TRUST AIR FILTER,
• MUFFLER,
• OHLINS COIL OVER SUSPENSION,
• TRD 1,5WAY LSD,
• RACING CLUTCH,
• WORK XD9 18" RACING ALLOYS

Hmmm - you did say this is an SZ->RZ conversion, right? Did they change out the whole engine to a 2jz-gte, or did they just add an aftermarket turbo kit? Either way, why isn't that mod listed? Did they put an oem TT ignitor and coil packs in? If not, how is that FCON driving the spark?
Also, what about the inferior n/a brake calipers and inferior n/a abs system...were those upgraded too, and if so why aren't those mods listed? {I do agree the coilovers on this one are awesome, but why is he still running the oem sway bars?}

Pardon me for sounding a bit harsh - I'm just trying to ensure you see the full picture before you spend any of your hard-earned money on either of these two Supras.

[[SupraLEGEND]]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Actually the oem Mkiv Supra Turbo typically dyno'd at about 320rwhp brand-new (US-spec)...which is about 375hp at the crank. Really.
Other critiques (just being honest here): This really is just a 'bpu' Supra, missing a downpipe, missing a BCC or FCD, and missing a boost controller. You'll need to add those two mods just to get it up to 'stage 1' - right now it's at about stage 0.5 . Sorry.
Hmmm - you did say this is an SZ->RZ conversion, right? Did they change out the whole engine to a 2jz-gte, or did they just add an aftermarket turbo kit? Either way, why isn't that mod listed? Did they put an oem TT ignitor and coil packs in? If not, how is that FCON driving the spark?
Also, what about the inferior n/a brake calipers and inferior n/a abs system...were those upgraded too, and if so why aren't those mods listed? {I do agree the coilovers on this one are awesome, but why is he still running the oem sway bars?}

Pardon me for sounding a bit harsh - I'm just trying to ensure you see the full picture before you spend any of your hard-earned money on either of these two Supras.

Remember, these are JDM spec Supras so, the '93 was rated at 280HP and we all know that was just because of the "gentlemens agreement". It had considerably more than that and this Supra, whilst lightly modified certainly produces more power than stock, as I said. No need to apologise dude, BPU it is - and with such power, I don't need to upgrade it anymore but, would like to Sorry, I'm not sure if it has an FCD - it may very well have one and the dealer forgot to mention it then again maybe it doesn't. Do coil overs fall under just BPU and not the + category?? The mods it has are great as is, I'm happy with them and surely will be able to take it from there (boost controller, down pipe, etc.) What it has now are expensive (especially the rims, HKS coil overs and other aesthetic upgrades) which saves me cash if I buy it. Another thing is, it is in immaculate condition, body, interior, and of course engine which carries so much weight when it comes to making a decision on a 2nd hand car and more so on an all out super car like the Supra. Seeing is believing...

Peace of mind...

Yes, the '95 is a conversion. I didn't list it because I already told you about it prior to the mods list. No, not just a bolt on turbo (NA-T), it's a full on 2JZ-GTE complete with (OEM) coil packs and ignitor hence it's now RZ grade save for the missing Getrag. Dealer gave me the full run down and also stated that it was professionally installed by a tuner who specialises in such tuning. He didn't say anything about the calipers being upgraded so, they could or could not have been. Again, it's JDM so, both these Supras would share the same brakes since Toyota only changed the JDM TT to big brakes after 1995. the racing brake pads would make a tangible difference though. Whether they're pre or post '95, Supra brakes have always been solidly good If need be, a brake upgrade is always possible. He didn't say anything about the ABS itself however, I think the SZ from '95 and up had been upgraded with better ABS than they had originally. He did say that a traction control system is in place and operates well. How do you know he's running the OEM sway bars??

No stress, I appreciate you trying to draw my attention to specifics that need attention in the '95 especially. Verdict is this: the '93 is a full on Supra RZ 6MT and I have no reservations about anything done to her. Nice, sensible upgrades tastefully done and it's in immaculate condition. My concern lies mainly with the '95 RZ 5MT because, as this discussion dictates, much attention had to be paid to specifics to get the car to stand on equal ground with the '93 RZ 6MT in all respects. Still a tough choice to make because, the '95 is done VERY well indeed. Trust me, I've seen many Supras and that one certainly stands out in the modification/conversion territory and is certainly worth deep consideration...those upgrades are worth a great deal of money and could save me a lot in that case.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...Do coil overs fall under just BPU and not the + category??...

BPU mods are horsepower-related only. Suspension is a separate category of modifications.

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...t's a full on 2JZ-GTE complete with (OEM) coil packs and ignitor hence it's now RZ grade save for the missing Getrag....

Pardon me for correcting you, but it's not really an RZ till the calipers, full ABS system, and differential are upgraded too. All of these SZ components are significantly inferior to the RZ/TT's.

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...Again, it's JDM so, both these Supras would share the same brakes since Toyota only changed the JDM TT to big brakes after 1995....

Hmmm....could you provide supporting documentation for that? US-spec Mkiv's had 4-piston front brake calipers since '93.5. I find it very strange that 'yota would have short-changed the JDM TT like that.

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...the racing brake pads would make a tangible difference though....

1) What is a "racing" brake pad? Sounds pretty subjective if you ask me. 2) There's no substitute for a bigger rotor. 3) (And most importantanly) there's no substitute for a 4-piston brake caliper over a 2-piston.

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...Whether they're pre or post '95, Supra brakes have always been solidly good...

Disagree. For what it's worth, I would not roadrace a ~3500 lb. Mkiv Turbo with n/a brake calipers - I honestly believe it would be dangerous and stupid (even if the pads were hand-crafted by Zeus himself).

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...however, I think the SZ from '95 and up had been upgraded with better ABS than they had originally....

Again, please provide a link to support this. In the US, the '96 Mkiv TT was actually downgraded from quad independent ABS to triple independent ABS (rear wheels use same ABS valving post '95). To me it seems highly unlikely 'yota would downgrade the US ABS the same year they upgraded Japanese-spec ABS.

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...How do you know he's running the OEM sway bars??...

How do you know he's not, if this wasn't in the list of modifications?

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...Verdict is this: the '93 is a full on Supra RZ 6MT...

Disagree, imho.

I agree with you that the mods that are on both Supras were chosen with some degree of forethought, and may very well have been installed properly. In fact, a few of the mods are downright impressive (eg. the Ohlin shocks). HOWEVER: I do disagree with the subjective interpretation of the overall results, since the '93 won't be a full TT/RZ until the transmission AND differential, calipers, and ABS system have been addressed ... and the '95 won't be full BPU until it has a downpipe and some way to raise the oem boost level.

If I had to pick one of the two based on what you've posted, I'd go for the 93.5 TT 'almost-BPU'...assuming the prices are fair for both. With the '95 SZ->RZ partial conversion, you'd still be getting an n/a Mkiv with a transplanted engine, and too much $ put into the suspension for your application (just assuming about your application - please let us know what it is), imho.