Hey howsit man? Didn't know there was another South African here :bigthumb: I heard that the W58 doesn't stand up well to Twin Turbo power unless it's been built. I need to ask the dealer about this to confirm...

Where are you from?

Im from witbank.
Any advise pwpanas gives you wil be good advise he knows alot obout supras.
Ill rather use the money you wil spend on making the 5speed stronger and just buy the 6 speed box.

Thank you for the additional information about Japanese-spec Mkiv brakes. Much appreciated.

Overall note: My purpose is to help protect you against the sellers here, that *may have* overstated the degree to which they have upgraded these cars. I'm also trying to educate other readers of this forum who may end up in a similar situation. My purpose is not to, for example, win an argument against you. I'm only trying to point out some things you may not have considered, given the limited information that you have posted here.

Disagree. In fact, now that you've shared your application I'm more convinced than ever than Ohlin shocks are overkill beyond overkill - waaaaaay too much suspension for your needs. Please consider the following:

• The oem shocks have been successfully roadraced.
• Minor suspension upgrades (Eibach springs and KYB shocks) have been successfully roadraced.
• Modest coilovers (HKS or Ground Control or Tiens) have been very successfully roadraced.
• You only need to go to the level of Penske/Ohlin/Moton shocks if you're a hard-core advanced amateur or semi-pro.

For your drag/street/track application, something like Eibachs and KYBs would fit the bill perfectly. At this level of suspension upgrade, your Supra's performance would be superior, and you would take great advantage of its capabilities. I suspect you'd get many years of great use out of that set-up before you would need to upgrade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND] (Post 99574) ...You can clearly see from the mod list that, the '95 Supra has APU engine upgrades. More power was clearly an emphasis with necessary attention being paid to the suspension which is very important for better handling of that extra power...

Too bad they didn't see fit to upgrade the brakes too...at least with US-spec rotors and calpers, if not something even better aftermarket (Brembo, AP Racing, Stoptech, Rotara, etc.). *shrug* With more power you don't just need to corner quicker, you need to stop quicker too.
Disagree. The reason I say this is because there's no such thing as a "racing" brake pad. The term is far too general. Give me the specific company name that makes the pad (eg. TRD? Carbotech? EBC? Brembo? Project Mu? etc.), and an exact compound specification and then we would actually have something that we can evaluate. Without that, a "racing" brake pad can actually hurt performance. For example, some of the 'EBC greenstuff' pads actually perform worse than oem, but some might consider them to be "racing" pads. Folks usually buy 'EBC greenstuff' pads because they create less brake dust than the oem pads. In fact, the oem brake pads really are quite good for braking performance, even in an on-track roadracing scenario.Agree: the TT is exhilarating. The n/a is merely something nice to look at.Not in the least little bit. If the n/a version were never made, the Mkiv Supra Turbo would have achieved a much higher ranking as an unequivicably 'affordable mid '90s supercar'. The Mkiv n/a's components are, to me, not much better than what you'd find in (for example) a Solara...which is by no standard a 'sportscar'.

I'm from Pretoria. Copy that dude. That's why I came to this thread because I knew I'd get a response from him. I don't intend to buy the 5MT, 6MT is what I've always been after...like you say, spending money to upgrade the 5 speed is unwise - rather get the 6MT and spend cash on upgrading engine, suspension, etc. It's just that, the Twin Turbo 5MT I'm talking about here has damn good modifications...

Your name is Phil right? I took a look at your Supra on your MySpace page. She's hot man, hot! I see we have similar taste in styling - good set of rims, no radical body kit, more stock look with enhancements such as tasteful kits to add to the original beauty of the Supra. My pleasure to provide info :)

I know your aim dude, no need to point it out. I really appreciate your advice. That's exactly why I came here, to get advice from people who currently own Supras and can tell me from experience what's what when mods are concerned. Thanks.

Glad you mentioned that the OEM shocks have been successfully roadraced because, that's just my point. The Supra as a whole is such a well engineered car stock standard, there's no real need to change anything. Now, I can get an enhanced Supra like the '93 RZ 6MT which has overall great parts that really add to it's already impressive capabilities which is a no brainer.

Wow, are Ohlins really THAT good??? Please tell me more about them because, until I saw the '95 Supra, I never heard their name before, lol (seriously, I haven't).

My needs are completely taken care of by both Supras - you reckon the Ohlins are overkill right now and I agree however, doesn't that also mean that I score big in that department if I do in fact buy that Supra with Ohlins - when I eventually do become hardcore amateur, semi-pro, the car already has such suspension?? Right, I've asked the dealer more questions about brakes, transmission and so on and will report back when he tells me more. Aww yeah, the '93 has HKS suspension which has been very successfully road-raced - I love the sound of that :crazy2:

About the racing pads. I answered you based on what came to my mind when I heard about them - perhaps they are TRD and if they are, I read on TRD's website that their pads offer "higher initial bite" than standard. They weren't referring to the Supra I'm sure because the Supra, as you say has very good brakes and pads as is but, what I gather from them is that's what they term "racing pads". If you buy TRD pads specifically for the Supra then, I'm guessing the performance will be even better to say the least. Just me putting 2 and 2 together because of a lack of information as to what the car actually has...yeah, if he didn't do the rotors as well, it's a pity. At least he didn't neglect them as a whole though. I'll wait for more info from the dealer but, I don't think he'll be able to tell me the compound of the pads. Sorry.

Toyota built the Supra in the best way possible - both TT and N/A. They know best what suits each the best. I only look for Supras that have been logically upgraded in such a way that matches and/or exceeds the level of performance Toyota achieved originally. The TT came with a 6 speed Getrag for a reason, conversely, the N/A came with a 5 speed also, for a reason - I agree with you fully on that one. I must say that I am highly impressed by the quality of Supras I have found in it's homeland. Superb tuning and pristine condition would make any hardcore fan happy.

What do you understand by a racing blow off valve?? they didn't give me a brand but said that the '93 RZ has a racing blow off valve - it doesn't look like an HKS or Blitz in terms of size but, it's definitely a BOV. How do you think it will perform (sound as well)? It's mounted where the original BOV is/was if that helps...

About the Supra being exhilarating - I actually meant both forms as in standard TT or modded;) I can't wait for this car man...years I've longed for it and now, it's finally in my midst - I can't describe that feeling to you in words...

Yes.Thank you! :DAbsolutely, but I'll let you decide. For starters, take a look at the price:
http://www.ohlinsusa.com/us/index.ph...road-and-track
Agree. I'm not saying it's bad to have too much suspension (except perhaps in the area of maintenace costs). However, I am saying the upgrades on that car are a bit unbalanced...too much suspension and not enough brakes. It's just an overall comment about the choices made for the specific combination of modifications. Like perhaps a project abandoned partway through? From the perspective of a project car or a starting point it's just fine. From the perspective of someone that wants to take the car out and seriously roadrace day 1, perhaps it's not optimal. *shrug*
The oem rotors are in fact better than aftermarket slotted and/or cross-drilled for pure braking power. However, there's no way to upgrade the rotor diameter without also changing the calipers. That's the level of brake upgrade that should have been done to match that suspension, imho.There are a very few areas where the Toyota let us down with the oem components, but the oem BOV is one of them. Inside it is just cheap plastic, and with the heat generated in the 2jz-gte engine bay the oem bov has a limited life span before it starts leaking. Pretty much any/every BOV will perform better than stock, especially in the reliability area. Of course, if you upgrade to a large single turbo, you'll also need larger size of BOV(s) to vent a greater volume of air during a blow-off.
If you're running the oem MAF, be sure to get a BOV that has an output routed back to the post-maf intake tube (as it is in the oem configuration). If you vent the BOV to atmosphere (again, with a MAF), you'll run overly-rich every time the BOV vents, which can stall the car and/or foul the plugs and/or wash down the cylinder walls.I do wish you the best of luck in obtaining a Supra. Please keep us informed on your journey! :)

Thanks for the vote of confidence and all the answers Phil. Oh, and my pleasure (complimenting your car) :)

I kinda agree with you on the point about the '95 Supra with OHLINS being abandoned half way through the project. I got the feeling that the previous owner was prepping it for a big single turbo...with the Sard racing fuel pump, HKS F-Con IS and Trust oil cooler, he may very well have been?
Are the stock rotors unsuitable for OHLINS?? :uh: OHLINS is damn expensive!!!

About the BOV, it looks quite solid (stainless finish) so, it should last a long time huh? It's quite small compared to an HKS SSQV or GReddy Type RZ
so, you reckon the sound will be easily audible or not?

The dealer told me how the '93 RZ felt and is about to tell me how the '95 feels after he drives it. Good news, the superb '93 RZ 6MT has a full HKS exhaust with front/down pipe :bouncy:

This is what the dealer told me after I asked them a few more questions about the APU+ Supra:

It's around 400HP so, the racing clutch allows the 5MT to handle that power well. If I want to modify it more like, go big single, I should install 6MT. They don't think that the ABS system has been upgraded however, most people who modify like to cancel ABS to get a more direct braking feel (this doesn't tell us that it's been cancelled rather, what a certain tuning practice may be). He does think that the ABS will be quite good with this power though, no problem.
He's confident that the racing pads make a favourable difference to the stock rotors braking performance. Engine, ECU, ignition coil, wiring harness is all RZ grade - complete set, no problem there.

What do you reckon?

P.S. more tuning questions: if you install a TRD 320km/h and 10 000rpm tacho, do you need to calibrate them or are they just plug and play (will both read correct speeds by default)? Is the HKS F-Con IS a stand alone unit that replaces the stock ECU altogether or does it work in conjunction with it?

Thanks Phil :bigthumb:

No, the braking system and the suspension system are independent of each other. Assuming a proper alighment and corner-weighting, you'd be able to corner like mad, but not stop very well. If you're okay with that imbalanced design for roadracing, then go for it. To me, it speaks to either bad planning for the upgrades, or a project partially finished. *shrug*To me, performance is always the trump card...not looks or cool sounds. The oem bov routes the charge-air from the BOV output back into the intake system, and the Toyota engineers designed it this way for a reason. To me, you don't mess with something that works unless there's a really good reason (and warbling blow-off valve sounds to impress your friends isn't one). Just mho.Yeah, there's another one I didn't mention earlier. No such thing as a "racing clutch". It's also too general of a term. An upgraded clutch also has specific a brand and a specific model.They're complete idiots, imho. Among other things, ABS is much safer in wet conditions, and it keeps you from flat-spotting your tires in dry conditions. The only justified ABS removal is if you choose to b@st@rdize your Supra and turn it into a trailered, drag-strip-only vehicle. Driving it only 1/4 mile at a time, with a parachute to slow you down at the end, the weight savings in removing the ABS is warranted. Other than that, keep it on. For n/a-T applications, get the TT ABS on there if at all possible, since it's much more capable than the n/a ABS: Eg. The TT ABS puts more braking power on the front left tire if turning right.Of course he says that - he's trying to sell the car lol. Again, just mho. *shrug*Again, no such thing. Oh, and he's very likely wrong as well...since the oem pads are so aggressive it's tough to beat them for a street/strip application. It's a joke and (to me) false advertising to imply that n/a brakes with "racing pads" are anywhere as effective as full TT 4-piston calipers and rotors.I still say get the oem TT and not the na-T.They're completely plug and play. However, neither are made anymore, so you'll have a tough time finding them.It's a standalone.

Disagree dude, BOV whooshing is what you NEED :bouncy:Especially for Supra with it's superb huge turbocharged "6 barrel shooter", that sound just works! Your friends and everyone else will be impressed just by looking at it then, when they hear it, they'd be blown away. The OEM BOV is audible but, it's quite soft. Agreed, if it works well then, no need to change but, you said so yourself that ANY BOV is better than the OEM one.

For all intents and purposes, "racing clutch" = upgraded clutch. Brand is unknown for now but, it's JDM, obviously it's superb quality. I guess it's a lightweight single plate type, possibly carbon.

BTW, I know what you mean but, the '95 is not an N/A-T, it's a full on Twin Turbo i.e. 2JZ-GTE. If it were a turbocharged GE then, yes, you can call it N/A-T. Inherent differences exist between it and the actual RZ 6MT as discussed.

Yes brakes and suspension are independent of each other. Remember what I said about JDM spec Supras pre '96? They share the same brakes - TT and N/A but, the ABS system is different (independent 4 wheel braking for Turbo - such awesome technology). Actually, need to confirm that just to make sure whether it's just for JDM TT. Yeah, RZ was tested to accelerate and stop the fastest in a super car showdown by some magazine in the mid '90's so, I can only imagine what the brakes' bite feels like :love:

Sigh dude, decisions decisions - I'm inclined to the RZ 6MT by default but, can't turn a blind eye to the RZ-S 5MT yet. I'm waiting to see which one I'm allowed to import - should make the decision easier (or harder, lol) I must have Supra RZ 6MT, NOW!!!!

Thanks for info on TRD gauges - yes, dealer confirmed that they're hard to come by now :(

So, what do you think of HKS EVC 5??

I can't begin to tell you how wrong I belive that your whole attitude is about this. They want your money and they can't even tell you what kind of clutch is in it. I can tell you 100% for sure I wouldn't send them a dime for that car unless I knew. For all you know - really! - it's just the oem clutch (or worse) and they're claiming it's a "racing clutch". How can you have so much blind faith in ... of all things ... a used car dealer???? I'm not going to call you gullible, since otherwise you come across as a very smart guy... Sorry to be blunt, but I can't help coming to that overall observation about your approach. Please consider being a bit more critical about them before you send them any of your hard-earned dollars...and repeat after me: there is no such thing as a "racing" clutch, or "racing" brake pads. These are just overly-general terms invented by a used car salesman that's either too lazy to find out what product was really used, or too slick to tell you the truth about what's really on there.
Let's agree to disagree about this. With the oem n/a suspension, the oem n/a transmission, and the oem n/a brake calipers (yes I know model years, Japanese-spec, etc., etc., but to me they're still n/a brakes), oem n/a differential, and the oem n/a ABS system, to me it's an na-T at best. Call me wrong if you like, and disagree if you like, but you're not going to change my mind about this. Let's let the other readers of this forum decide for themselves.
If you think the oem TT (US-spec) brakes are cool, you should feel some real upgraded brakes like AP Racing, Brembo, or Stoptech. Oh, and brake ducts should be added too if it's going to be roadraced.
The HKS EVC 5 (actually the current model is 6) is a very good boost controller - I've got no concerns about it at all, as long as it's properly installed and properly calibrated. However, I prefer the HKS EVC EZ 2 (or the just-released HKS EVC-S) for its simplicity and lower price.