Wait a second, I never said I have or am going to buy a Supra Turbo with a W58, lol. I know that the V160 is the ultimate tranny for the Supra Turbo, no doubt about that. Reason why I asked is because, I have the option of buying a stunningly beautiful JDM '93 RZ 6MT BPU++ or wickedly beautiful JDM '95 SZ turned RZ 5MT APU+. The '95 Turbo with 5MT just makes me wonder what the torque and HP characteristics are since it's unusual for the "Big Boss" GTE to be mated to what was designed for the "Boss" GE. I'm already leaning towards the '93 but, it's still a hard choice to make...

The previous owner of the '95 Supra clearly had the money to buy a Getrag if he wished but, since he didn't, perhaps it was built stronger or just his preference...

Glad you're leaning towards not buying the SZ->RZ APU+ "Supra Turbo with a W58" 5MT ;) . I'd be worried about what else wasn't upgraded on the SZ, like the brakes, ignition, suspension, etc.

Hehe, thought you'd say that. Alas, I am very impressed by the quality tuning work done on the Red Supra. Everything you mentioned has been given careful attention to. Would you like to know the list of mods to get an idea of what exactly has been done?? (You know you want to...:grinking:) Of course, I'll give you the full run down of the RZ 6MT's upgrades as well which are oh, so nice :bouncy:

Absolutely! :) ...looking forward to it.

Glad to hear it - here you go:)

'93 Supra RZ 6MT upgrades:

• ONE OWNER,
• FULL BODY KIT,
• HKS MUFFLER,
• BLITZ AIR FILTER,
• APEX'i REV & SPEED METER,
• HKS COIL OVER SUSPENSION KIT,
• RACING BLOW OFF VALVE,
• SPARCO OZ RACING "SUPERTURISMO" RACING SEAT X 2PCS,
• ALUMINUM 3 LAYER RADIATOR,
• BOOST GAUGE,
• TURBO TIMER,
• MOMO RACING STEERING WHEEL,
• 18" RACING ALLOYS

Mileage is a super low 65 000kms (sorry, not sure what that is in miles but either way, it is very low!!) As it is now, she produces an even bigger than stock HP at 336+.

'95 Supra RZ 5MT upgrades:

• FULL BODY KIT,
• GANADOR CARBON AERO MIRRORS,
• RACING BRAKE PADS,
• STAINLESS MESH BRAKE LINE,
• GT WING,
• LED TAIL LIGHT,
• HKS F-CON IS FUEL AND IGNITION TIMING COMPUTER,
• SARD RACING FUEL PUMP,
• TRUST RACING INTERCOOLER,
• TRUST OIL COOLER,
• HKS EVC5 BOOS CONTROLLER,
• FRONT PIPE,
• TRUST AIR FILTER,
• MUFFLER,
• OHLINS COIL OVER SUSPENSION,
• TRD 1,5WAY LSD,
• RACING CLUTCH,
• RACING BRAKE PADS,
• BRIDE "LOW MAX" HYBRID RACING SEAT,
• CARBON FIBER DETAILING ON THE DASH,
• TRD 320KM/H SPEEDOMETER,
• WORK XD9 18" RACING ALLOYS

Engine has just 63 000kms on the clock (super low!!)
Setup for a maximum of 1.2kg boost. Currently running at 1.0kg on stock twins (sorry, not sure about the PSi equivalent...). Clearly pushing out even more serious power than she does stock although I'm not sure of the actual figure.

As you can see they are both modified but, the red one has more mods. Excellent parts from excellent brands, professionally installed and setup. They are both giving me almost sleepless nights with excitement :x:

Actually the oem Mkiv Supra Turbo typically dyno'd at about 320rwhp brand-new (US-spec)...which is about 375hp at the crank. Really.
Other critiques (just being honest here): This really is just a 'bpu' Supra, missing a downpipe, missing a BCC or FCD, and missing a boost controller. You'll need to add those two mods just to get it up to 'stage 1' - right now it's at about stage 0.5 . Sorry.
Hmmm - you did say this is an SZ->RZ conversion, right? Did they change out the whole engine to a 2jz-gte, or did they just add an aftermarket turbo kit? Either way, why isn't that mod listed? Did they put an oem TT ignitor and coil packs in? If not, how is that FCON driving the spark?
Also, what about the inferior n/a brake calipers and inferior n/a abs system...were those upgraded too, and if so why aren't those mods listed? {I do agree the coilovers on this one are awesome, but why is he still running the oem sway bars?}

Pardon me for sounding a bit harsh - I'm just trying to ensure you see the full picture before you spend any of your hard-earned money on either of these two Supras.

Remember, these are JDM spec Supras so, the '93 was rated at 280HP and we all know that was just because of the "gentlemens agreement". It had considerably more than that and this Supra, whilst lightly modified certainly produces more power than stock, as I said. No need to apologise dude, BPU it is - and with such power, I don't need to upgrade it anymore but, would like to :) Sorry, I'm not sure if it has an FCD - it may very well have one and the dealer forgot to mention it then again maybe it doesn't. Do coil overs fall under just BPU and not the + category?? The mods it has are great as is, I'm happy with them and surely will be able to take it from there (boost controller, down pipe, etc.) What it has now are expensive (especially the rims, HKS coil overs and other aesthetic upgrades) which saves me cash if I buy it. Another thing is, it is in immaculate condition, body, interior, and of course engine which carries so much weight when it comes to making a decision on a 2nd hand car and more so on an all out super car like the Supra. Seeing is believing...

Peace of mind...

Yes, the '95 is a conversion. I didn't list it because I already told you about it prior to the mods list. No, not just a bolt on turbo (NA-T), it's a full on 2JZ-GTE complete with (OEM) coil packs and ignitor hence it's now RZ grade save for the missing Getrag. Dealer gave me the full run down and also stated that it was professionally installed by a tuner who specialises in such tuning. He didn't say anything about the calipers being upgraded so, they could or could not have been. Again, it's JDM so, both these Supras would share the same brakes since Toyota only changed the JDM TT to big brakes after 1995. the racing brake pads would make a tangible difference though. Whether they're pre or post '95, Supra brakes have always been solidly good :) If need be, a brake upgrade is always possible. He didn't say anything about the ABS itself however, I think the SZ from '95 and up had been upgraded with better ABS than they had originally. He did say that a traction control system is in place and operates well. How do you know he's running the OEM sway bars??

No stress, I appreciate you trying to draw my attention to specifics that need attention in the '95 especially. Verdict is this: the '93 is a full on Supra RZ 6MT and I have no reservations about anything done to her. Nice, sensible upgrades tastefully done and it's in immaculate condition. My concern lies mainly with the '95 RZ 5MT because, as this discussion dictates, much attention had to be paid to specifics to get the car to stand on equal ground with the '93 RZ 6MT in all respects. Still a tough choice to make because, the '95 is done VERY well indeed. Trust me, I've seen many Supras and that one certainly stands out in the modification/conversion territory and is certainly worth deep consideration...those upgrades are worth a great deal of money and could save me a lot in that case.

BPU mods are horsepower-related only. Suspension is a separate category of modifications.
Pardon me for correcting you, but it's not really an RZ till the calipers, full ABS system, and differential are upgraded too. All of these SZ components are significantly inferior to the RZ/TT's.
Hmmm....could you provide supporting documentation for that? US-spec Mkiv's had 4-piston front brake calipers since '93.5. I find it very strange that 'yota would have short-changed the JDM TT like that.1) What is a "racing" brake pad? Sounds pretty subjective if you ask me. 2) There's no substitute for a bigger rotor. 3) (And most importantanly) there's no substitute for a 4-piston brake caliper over a 2-piston.
Disagree. For what it's worth, I would not roadrace a ~3500 lb. Mkiv Turbo with n/a brake calipers - I honestly believe it would be dangerous and stupid (even if the pads were hand-crafted by Zeus himself).
Again, please provide a link to support this. In the US, the '96 Mkiv TT was actually downgraded from quad independent ABS to triple independent ABS (rear wheels use same ABS valving post '95). To me it seems highly unlikely 'yota would downgrade the US ABS the same year they upgraded Japanese-spec ABS.

How do you know he's not, if this wasn't in the list of modifications?
Disagree, imho.

I agree with you that the mods that are on both Supras were chosen with some degree of forethought, and may very well have been installed properly. In fact, a few of the mods are downright impressive (eg. the Ohlin shocks). HOWEVER: I do disagree with the subjective interpretation of the overall results, since the '93 won't be a full TT/RZ until the transmission AND differential, calipers, and ABS system have been addressed ... and the '95 won't be full BPU until it has a downpipe and some way to raise the oem boost level.

If I had to pick one of the two based on what you've posted, I'd go for the 93.5 TT 'almost-BPU'...assuming the prices are fair for both. With the '95 SZ->RZ partial conversion, you'd still be getting an n/a Mkiv with a transplanted engine, and too much $ put into the suspension for your application (just assuming about your application - please let us know what it is), imho.

To answer you about the brakes especially, the dealer told me many things about the cars. The '95 may very well have received a full brake upgrade to match the actual RZ's system. Unfortunately, I cannot see it personally since they're in Japan and there is a possibility that the dealer may have left out a few details. This is evident by his not mentioning certain parts that I could see from the pictures. You made an assumption about the sway bars. I didn't assume he upgraded them or not. I'd rather find that out from the dealer. No train smash there.

Aha, it seems you were misinformed about JDM Vs. USDM Supras, imho. The link you requested is here: www.mkiv.co.nz
The original Japanese TT mkiv Supra came out with the same brakes as the NA from May 1993 to May 1995. After May 1995 Toyota having realised this was a bad move decided to start using the BIG brakes that were always on the export model TT Mkiv from when it was first made. The move to big brakes on the Japanse Mkiv TT's was a piecemeal affair with only some TT's having the big brakes and only after May 1995.
The BIG brakes are an straight bolt-on although you will have to either bend the backing plates out of the way a bit or remove them entirely as I did. You can buy second-hand ones from the USA (where all the TT's have them) or even purchase new ones from Toyota as they were available on the post May 95 Japanese Mkiv's.

Your statement about "too much money put into the suspension" is far off. You can clearly see from the mod list that, the '95 Supra has APU engine upgrades. More power was clearly an emphasis with necessary attention being paid to the suspension which is very important for better handling of that extra power. As you can see by the mkiv.co.nz article above, '93 to '95 JDM Supras shared the same size brakes unlike the export spec.

Can you provide factual evidence of your statement about US Supras brakes being downgraded?

As for "racing pads". Yes, no substitute for bigger rotors and more pistons however, racing pads are not subjective. They genuinely improve braking performance. Better compounds = better grip onto the rotors which makes stopping easier and more precise. It'd rather have just a racing pads
upgrade than no brake upgrade at all. This of course is unnecessary on the original '93 RZ 6MT because, it's not pushing far more power than stock so it's brakes are definitely good enough.

Lol, I wonder if you guessed that my application is this:

To use the Supra to it's full potential in drag and circuit racing. It excels in both respects so, that's what I want to do. It's the best in power and handling from the Big Four Japanese supercars of the '90's, imho. The track (circuit racing) won't be very often but, I will definitely be on the track for drags more often than laps. My Supra and I will be king of the streets here which is where I'll be driving most often ;) (more) upgrading can be done by me step by step. If I desire, the dealer is more than willing to mod either one further e.g. a boost controller for the RZ 6MT. Therefore, both these Supras cater for my needs. The beauty of aftermarket is this: as your needs change (evolve) you can mod your car to suit them. Supra is going to blow my mind - stock or modified :bigthumb:

P.S. I would accept a stock standard Supra but, prefer if it's lightly to moderately modified like these two are. You must agree that Supra is exhilarating in both forms (moreso modded)? I notice you use the word "inferior" when talking about N/A's - the TT is certainly superior but, don't you think that's a bit harsh against the N/A?

BTW, where is JDM 93.5??? I need his feedback on the feel of an RZ thru 5MT box...

I know for a fact the 5 speed box brakes.Know a other supra driver he bought a automatic and converted it to the 5 speed and broke the box twice.

There is not that many supras in SA.