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Old 02-06-2006, 09:00 AM   #1
STRAIGHT-6R
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Default turbo upgradebility?

What is the largest twin turbo set-up that a stock JZ2-TT will support? (exhaust gas psi and fuel cc...etc)
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Old 02-06-2006, 02:16 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STRAIGHT-6R
What is the largest twin turbo set-up that a stock JZ2-TT will support? (exhaust gas psi and fuel cc...etc)
The largest "twin turbo set-up" that the stock fuel system (550cc injectors, US-spec Mkiv Supra Turbo) will support is the ct12b "twin turbo set-up" that comes with the 2jz-gte from the factory (aka the 'oem twins'). In theory, the oem fuel system (in perfect condition) could support a pair of turbos about 5%-10% larger than the 'oem twins', but unfortunately an off-the-shelf "twin turbo set-up" that's only 5%-10% larger than oem does not exist.

Also note that the only sequential "twin turbo set-up" available for the 2jz-gte is the 'oem twins'. ALL other (aftermarket) "twin turbo set-up"s are non-sequential.

With an upgraded fuel system, the biggest (off-the-shelf) "twin turbo set-up" that the 2jz-gte block will support is the HKS GT 2835 kit. Again, this kit is non-sequential which means this kit will spool up much slower than the 'oem twins'...both because the turbos are larger AND because they are non-sequential. I believe at one time, HKS did offer a smaller twin turbo kit (2530's?), but I believe at high boost this set-up would also exceed the capability of the oem fuel system. In theory, a person could purchase a 2835 kit, sell just the 2835 turbos, and then put a pair 2530s onto the kit. Not only would this still spool much slower than the oem twins (because it's non-sequential), it would not be safe with the oem fuel system.

In addition, note that "exhaust gas psi" is probably not relevant. I'd guess you mean charge-air psi (aka 'boost'). With HKS 272 cams, race fuel, and about 29psi of charge-air pressure, the HKS GT 2835 twin turbo set-up can put out about 775rwhp through a 6spd (that's about 910hp at the crank).

Lastly, note that "twin turbo set-up"s don't spool significantly faster than single turbo setups (of equivalent size). The "twin turbo set-up"s also cost several thousand $ more than a single turbo kit of equivalent horsepower capability (as you can see from the link I posted above, partnumber 1103-RT028US). Why are you specifically interested in "twin turbo set-up"s?
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Last edited by pwpanas; 02-06-2006 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 02-06-2006, 06:00 PM   #3
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WOW!! that's alot of very helpful info!


I have two questions.

1. I was under the impression that, it takes specific amounts of exhaust pressure to spool up certain different sizes of turbos, not so?

2. If a single turbo set-up has the same horsepower potential as a twin set-up, is it also capable of equal spool-up time? (acceleration off the line) What are the pros and cons of each?

I'm not partial to twin turbos, especially now that you have enlightened me.
Thanks
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Old 02-06-2006, 06:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STRAIGHT-6R
...1. I was under the impression that, it takes specific amounts of exhaust pressure to spool up certain different sizes of turbos, not so?...
Although I agree that it generally takes more exhaust pressure & volume to 'spool up' a larger turbo, that change in pressure & volume isn't generally measured. I'd suggest a key reason that it isn't generally measured is that, for a given engine (eg. 2jz-gte) & turbo set-up, there's no way to change that amount of pressure/volume without changing either the rpm, adding nitrous, or running an anti-lag system. In general, the turbo-selection-related things that most owners of soon-to-be-(re)modified Mkiv Supras do concern themselves with are:
1) What max horsepower you want to achieve
2) Which turbo is recommended to produce that max horsepower level
3) What boost level do you need to run to support that max horsepower
4) What octane of fuel you need to run to support that boost level
5) The rpm point that the turbo spools up on that engine
6) Whether you want to run nitrous and/or anti-lag to make that turbo spool sooner (based on your application (roadrace/dragrace/etc.), torque converter (if auto), and driving style)
Quote:
Originally Posted by STRAIGHT-6R
...2. If a single turbo set-up has the same horsepower potential as a twin set-up, is it also capable of equal spool-up time? (acceleration off the line)...
1) Yes (assuming we're comparing a single turbo set-up to a non-sequential twin turbo set-up).
2) Spool-up time is not generally the same as acceleration off the line.*
Quote:
Originally Posted by STRAIGHT-6R
...What are the pros and cons of each?...
Since equivalently-sized non-sequential twin turbo vs. single turbo setups spool at a near-identical rpm point, the comparison is rather straightforward:

Twin turbos (non-sequential) - Pros:
- Sounds cool to say your car has twin turbos
Twin turbos (non-sequential) - Cons:
- More expensive than a single turbo set up
- More complex than a single turbo set up (i.e. increases the number of possible failure points)

Single turbo - Pros:
- Sounds cool to say your Mkiv Supra has a big single turbo
- Less expensive than a twin turbo setup
Single turbo - Cons:
- None?

Spool-up/Lag vs. "Acceleration Off The Line"
* Spool-up is the rpm point that the turbo(s) begin to build boost. Acceleration off the line depends on how you drive (6spd) and/or the stall of the torque converter you choose (auto). In other words, you could hypothetically run a huge laggy turbo, but run it with a high-stall torque converter and brake-boost and still get excellent off-the-line response.
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Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.

Last edited by pwpanas; 02-06-2006 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 02-07-2006, 12:47 AM   #5
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AMAZING!!!!

You've answered all of my questions so well. I feel like I've learned sooooo much in so little time...thanks!

DROOOOOOOOOL----TURBOOOOOS!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-15-2006, 11:02 PM   #6
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Isnt it possible(with some fab and trial and error and engineerin) to just run a smaller turbo and a larger turbo, and just use something like a wastegate or some other kind of valve to switch between them? or use a small turbo and once it exceeds its boost, to just use the wastegate to start spooling another turbo. Or even just put a small and large turbo on the same manifold with a cross over tube? I guess im basically trying to say...is there anyway to make your own sequential turbo system capable of higher horsepower. Just some questions i have no idea if this is possible or not...lol
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Old 03-16-2006, 07:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STRAIGHT-6R
What is the largest twin turbo set-up that a stock JZ2-TT will support? (exhaust gas psi and fuel cc...etc)
There's only one off-the-shelf "twin turbo set-up" for the 2JZ-GTE:
http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=695
...and it includes two HKS GT2835 turbos. Of course, if you go custom, you can replace these with any turbos you want (for example Ken Henderson runs a pair of modified GT3240s).
...with the off-the-shelf 2835s, the HKS twin turbo kit will produce about 750rwhp max, which is well within the capabilities of a stock 2jz-GTE. Here's an example dyno run:
http://www.t04r.com/media/billrobards_dyno.jpg
...but you would need an aftermarket/upgraded fuel system to run this twin turbo kit. You'll need to upgrade the cams as well (at least HKS 264s).

If you're talking about a full-custom twin turbo kit, we'll have to reference the 'record' for an oem 2jz-gte, which is nearly 1100rwhp. In theory, you could run two Turbonetics TS04 turbos (each capable of producing over 500rwhp), but I doubt you could expect a high degree of reliability at that horsepower level.
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Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.
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Old 03-16-2006, 07:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isphius
Isnt it possible(with some fab and trial and error and engineerin) to just run a smaller turbo and a larger turbo, and just use something like a wastegate or some other kind of valve to switch between them? or use a small turbo and once it exceeds its boost, to just use the wastegate to start spooling another turbo. Or even just put a small and large turbo on the same manifold with a cross over tube? I guess im basically trying to say...is there anyway to make your own sequential turbo system capable of higher horsepower. Just some questions i have no idea if this is possible or not...lol
In theory it's possible, but you'd have to completely isolate the two turbos if they're different sizes. If you didn't the big turbo would spin the smaller one backwards at higher boost levels.
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Phil '94 Supra Turbo, 6spd, 'APU'+
Displacement is no replacement for boost.
Life begins at 30psi.


NB: Please consider posting any help requests in a new thread instead of asking me for help privately. About 99.9+% of the time, private help requests end up covering great information that could be very valuable to other forum members. If you have a good reason for needing the help request to be private, I'll consider it. If not, then why not give everyone else the opportunity to pitch in too, and/or learn from the information? Remember, there's no such thing as a dumb question. We're all here to help within this family of Supra owners.
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Old 03-16-2006, 09:39 AM   #9
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you should write a book
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Old 03-16-2006, 05:52 PM   #10
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im not saying this sarcastically, but how do the factory sequential turbos work?
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