Second Gear Sound

[dcrusupra]

This happened over night. I started my car, as normal. Reverse, normal, first, normal, but second. Second is odd. It engages like normal. It just sounds like i have a huge supercharger or turbo winding up. But as much as i'd like to have those, i dont. I have an N/A 5 speed. Thruout the entire gear. Even if i let go of the gas it sounds like its winding down. As soon as i press the clutch in the noise goes away. This is the only gear it happens in. It sounds like reverse but much louder. Please help?

[Littlestan]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, Dcrusupra.

But I've wracked my brain over this one, and from my experiences using manual tranny's it sounds exactly like 2nd gear is going going gone.

You say the sound goes away when the clutch is pressed in, . That means the clutch can be ruled out for making the noise since it also works fine in all the other gears.

What usually has happened in a case like this is the shaft holding the gear(s) for 2nd gear engagement is either bent or loose. There's a multitude of things that can go funky when things start letting go. Bearings, normal wear and tear, and missing shifts are definite leaders of manual tranny failure.

In any case, 2nd gear isn't going to last much longer. In my opinion, get it rebuilt ASAP before total failure occurs and causes much more damage.

Sorry m'man,

-=Littlestan=-

[dcrusupra]

Damn, that sucks to hear. But i could still just skip over second right? Or would this still be a problem? I won't be doing it for long. Just long enough to get it over to the tranny shop. And damn dude, ur car is mint.

[Burn N' Up]

Yes you can still skip second, the way everything is pressed together all only one gear is taking stress at one time, or none in neutral, even though both the cluster and input shaft are spinning. Second will contine to wear though even though its not actually under stress so you need to get it fixed before it starts shaving off little bits of metal that will wear other parts of the tranny. Sounds like needle roller bearings that are going bad so once the synchros lock up second gear is now turning with stress on it and its shatty bearing. It is always turning anyways because it is always touching the cluster but as soon as you lock it up with the clutch hub and sleeve, blammo, the stress makes the bearings chirp. If you want a rebuild kit PM me and i'll set you up with the guy who sold me mine, i had to rebuild after my first gear needle roller and cluster bearing started chirping on take off. If you plan on doing this yourself you'll need a machine shop sooner or later to press clutch hubs and 5th gear and what not on and off the output shaft. Good luck.

P.S. Never seen a shaft bend or come loose, shaft bearings or needle roller bearings are usually the culprit. The shafts are made of stainless steel about an inch in diamter... bendable? Not unless you've got some serious horsies, like 800.

[rnoswal]

Just remember, it won't get better. Start looking for a replacement soon so you can use all the gears again. You can check the trans fluid and if it is low then top it off and maybe the noise will abate some and make it last a little bit longer. All these old cars start to get the hardening of the seals, they start leaking and then it is too late. If you do replace the tranny, make sure you replace the rear main engine seal and pilot shaft bearing along with the front and rear seals on the tranny.Let us know

Russ

[Littlestan]

P.S. Never seen a shaft bend or come loose, shaft bearings or needle roller bearings are usually the culprit. The shafts are made of stainless steel about an inch in diamter... bendable? Not unless you've got some serious horsies, like 800.

While I know most manual tranny's share the same operating principal, I assure you the Chevy tranny's that I used to race my 600HP 454 Chevelle do not have 1 inch thick stainless steel shafts in them. Thus, they did bend often (Too often, IMO). Seeing as how these tranny's are of considerably less "beef" than a Chevy one, I assumed the shafts would be more prone to failure.

Cheers,

-=Littlestan=-

[Burn N' Up]

Originally Posted by Littlestan

While I know most manual tranny's share the same operating principal, I assure you the Chevy tranny's that I used to race my 600HP 454 Chevelle do not have 1 inch thick stainless steel shafts in them. Thus, they did bend often (Too often, IMO). Seeing as how these tranny's are of considerably less "beef" than a Chevy one, I assumed the shafts would be more prone to failure.

Cheers,

-=Littlestan=-

Interesting... how do you think the tranny applied the lateral force to bend the rods, i'm not saying it didn't happen but i'm just interested as to how you think the forces were applied, twisting?

Also, I've rebuilt the R154s and I have the spec sheets on them, the thinest part on the entire cluster(counter gear) shaft is 1.0968 inches in diameter, and the thinest part on the Output shaft is 1.4905 located under 3rd gear. Apparently "beefer" hehe.

Edit: Definetly replace the pilot bearing and if you havn't before or recently replace the throw out, its just worth it. Basically whatever Russ said do it. Don't forget to order the washers and snap rings from a dealer so you'll have them when you need them to reassemble the throwout arm.

[Isphius]

Originally Posted by Littlestan

While I know most manual tranny's share the same operating principal, I assure you the Chevy tranny's that I used to race my 600HP 454 Chevelle do not have 1 inch thick stainless steel shafts in them. Thus, they did bend often (Too often, IMO). Seeing as how these tranny's are of considerably less "beef" than a Chevy one, I assumed the shafts would be more prone to failure.

Cheers,

-=Littlestan=-

Theres also not 650 lb ft of torque in front of them lol. dam i want a big block now I have a 350hp monte carlo that i take to englishtown every once in a while lol. its pretty fast. my transmission is aslo going...its an auto thou. goodluck with the trans. Oh that reminds me. if anyone has a used trans to rebuild lemme know. mine is getting real rough, it wont even go into 2nd unless i double clutch it or let it ride on the synchro for a few seconds. 3rd is pretty rough too.

[Littlestan]

Interesting... how do you think the tranny applied the lateral force to bend the rods, i'm not saying it didn't happen but i'm just interested as to how you think the forces were applied, twisting?

Once I opened up the wrecked can and seen the damage done, it was hard to tell just HOW the forces were applied.

The gears of the tranny are mounted on the shafts, this everyone knows. What I was suggesting happened is that the bearings the shafts are mounted to failed in some form (wear and tear, burned up, etc.) and caused too much free play to operate correctly resulting in complete failure. HOW the shafts were bent, I have no idea. Total carnage...

Holy hell, those are some pretty beefy shafts. No bending those bad boys.

Later,

-=Littlestan=-

[dcrusupra]

Hey, ummm, im scratching my head over this one. The second gear does not make noise anymore. It seems to have switched to the first gear. Anyone as confused as i am?