Still no spark - started Ground Location B

wayja · 06-26-2012, 01:07 AM

I have found the missing ground issue and hooked them to the right place and still have no spark. The fuel pump does not come on unless I jumper at the check connector. The only error code I am getting is 51. Does it sound plausible that everything is working through the ECU and the problem would be coils or ignitor? If the ECU thinks its inputs are good and sends the required signals out, but spark never happens, does the ECU know?, or this this flawed logic? This car is driving me crazy! I have had spark only twice for a few rotations and then nothing. I have searched the forum and checked everything I can find, new connectors, etc. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

wayja · 06-26-2012, 03:29 AM

For whatever it is worth, there is no tachometer movement during cranking. Maybe bad ignitor?

interested! · 06-26-2012, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayja

I have found the missing ground issue and hooked them to the right place and still have no spark. The fuel pump does not come on unless I jumper at the check connector. The only error code I am getting is 51. Does it sound plausible that everything is working through the ECU and the problem would be coils or ignitor? If the ECU thinks its inputs are good and sends the required signals out, but spark never happens, does the ECU know?, or this this flawed logic? This car is driving me crazy! I have had spark only twice for a few rotations and then nothing. I have searched the forum and checked everything I can find, new connectors, etc. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Hi! Can you give us some history of what happened? - was the engine running then stopped ? or are you rebuilding ? or just trying from scratch?
Question? - have you thoroughly checked the ground from the coil plate to cylinder head ? --no continuity-no curcuit! -no spark! , also have you checked ALL the grounds UNDER the inlet manifold? .All grounds complete a curcuit , the most important are : Battery to body , Body to Engine / Engine to Battery.

wayja · 06-27-2012, 08:26 AM

Hello interested! The history of this car is, I purchased after the previous owner installed a new head gasket and couldnt get it running. It has new coil packs, CPS, and all relays have been replaced. I have been working on it as time allows. I put a new connector on the CPS, as it seems to be a source of trouble. Two times while cranking, I had spark, that lasted a brief time. I will double check the ground at the coil plate, and the grounds you recommended.

Thank you.

interested! · 06-27-2012, 09:55 AM

Hi! again , The coil plate is insulated and also the cam cover so it is very important to make sure the plate is grounded to the cylinder head to complete the curcuit , the wires to the coils are FEED/LIVE , it may be an idea to check continuity THROUGH the coils to the ground plate as well . There are several ground wires under the inlet manifold ( my engine is a 7MGTE ) and these were the cause of not sparking -I forgot to connect them , they are hidden , you will need a good mirror . The colour of my coil plate / ground wire ( green with yellow stripe ) is the UK mains wiring code for EARTH/GROUND.

wayja · 06-27-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by interested!

Hi! again , The coil plate is insulated and also the cam cover so it is very important to make sure the plate is grounded to the cylinder head to complete the curcuit , the wires to the coils are FEED/LIVE , it may be an idea to check continuity THROUGH the coils to the ground plate as well . There are several ground wires under the inlet manifold ( my engine is a 7MGTE ) and these were the cause of not sparking -I forgot to connect them , they are hidden , you will need a good mirror . The colour of my coil plate / ground wire ( green with yellow stripe ) is the UK mains wiring code for EARTH/GROUND.

Thank you. I will have a go trying to find the ground wires and double check the coil plate grounding this weekend. I will let you know the results.

wayja · 07-01-2012, 06:35 PM

Ok, here is what I done so far. I have resoldered the wires at the connector that goes to the coil pack and replaced the ground wire to the coil plate. Still no joy. After doing the work I cranked the engine over and then checked codes. All I am ever getting is 51. That shouldn't prevent spark should it? I have the cover off the back of the ignitor and get 12v on four wires with the key on. Is that normal? When I crank it I am not getting any voltage to light a trouble light. There is no tach movement when I crank it over either. If the ignitor was bad, would it trigger an alarm code of some kind? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

wayja · 07-01-2012, 06:39 PM

I guess I should also mention that I have disconnected the alarm box and jumpered the appropriate wire to ground. I have power across all fuses under the hood. It sounds like all relays are clicking.

cre · 07-02-2012, 06:10 AM

I'm pretty sure the ECU diagnostic of the igniter requires at least partial operation. As in it counts missed IGt and IGf signals.... I'd have to do a little reading to be sure.

wayja · 07-02-2012, 07:37 PM

New Development! While troubleshooting and ohming wires and testing voltages, the car no longer cranks over with the key. The starter relay clicks, but no fuel pump operation and no starter rotation. I checked all connectors and they are good, and the battery is fully charged. I thought maybe the neutral start switch (this is an automatic car) so I looked for a way to temporarily bypass it for testing. I found two connectors under the intake manifold, one with six wires and one with three. I disconnected the six connector wire. The TSRM says that all six wires should have continuity.? Just for fun, I checked voltages at the ECU. According to the schematics, after the starter relay there is a connector to the ECU (NSW). It has 12V when turning the key. I checked the wire afterthe switch (it is still disconnected and got 12V on pin STA. How can this be? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

06-26-2012, 01:07 AM	#1
wayja Stock Join Date: May 2012 Location: Chico, CA Posts: 10	Still no spark - started Ground Location B I have found the missing ground issue and hooked them to the right place and still have no spark. The fuel pump does not come on unless I jumper at the check connector. The only error code I am getting is 51. Does it sound plausible that everything is working through the ECU and the problem would be coils or ignitor? If the ECU thinks its inputs are good and sends the required signals out, but spark never happens, does the ECU know?, or this this flawed logic? This car is driving me crazy! I have had spark only twice for a few rotations and then nothing. I have searched the forum and checked everything I can find, new connectors, etc. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

06-27-2012, 09:55 AM	#5
interested! 3" Exhaust Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: redhill surrey uk Posts: 142	still no spark Hi! again , The coil plate is insulated and also the cam cover so it is very important to make sure the plate is grounded to the cylinder head to complete the curcuit , the wires to the coils are FEED/LIVE , it may be an idea to check continuity THROUGH the coils to the ground plate as well . There are several ground wires under the inlet manifold ( my engine is a 7MGTE ) and these were the cause of not sparking -I forgot to connect them , they are hidden , you will need a good mirror . The colour of my coil plate / ground wire ( green with yellow stripe ) is the UK mains wiring code for EARTH/GROUND. Last edited by interested!; 06-27-2012 at 09:59 AM.

07-02-2012, 06:10 AM	#9
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	I'm pretty sure the ECU diagnostic of the igniter requires at least partial operation. As in it counts missed IGt and IGf signals.... I'd have to do a little reading to be sure. __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

07-02-2012, 07:37 PM	#10
wayja Stock Join Date: May 2012 Location: Chico, CA Posts: 10	New Development New Development! While troubleshooting and ohming wires and testing voltages, the car no longer cranks over with the key. The starter relay clicks, but no fuel pump operation and no starter rotation. I checked all connectors and they are good, and the battery is fully charged. I thought maybe the neutral start switch (this is an automatic car) so I looked for a way to temporarily bypass it for testing. I found two connectors under the intake manifold, one with six wires and one with three. I disconnected the six connector wire. The TSRM says that all six wires should have continuity.? Just for fun, I checked voltages at the ECU. According to the schematics, after the starter relay there is a connector to the ECU (NSW). It has 12V when turning the key. I checked the wire afterthe switch (it is still disconnected and got 12V on pin STA. How can this be? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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06-26-2012, 03:29 AM	#2
wayja Stock Join Date: May 2012 Location: Chico, CA Posts: 10	For whatever it is worth, there is no tachometer movement during cranking. Maybe bad ignitor?

06-27-2012, 08:26 AM	#4
wayja Stock Join Date: May 2012 Location: Chico, CA Posts: 10	Hello interested! The history of this car is, I purchased after the previous owner installed a new head gasket and couldnt get it running. It has new coil packs, CPS, and all relays have been replaced. I have been working on it as time allows. I put a new connector on the CPS, as it seems to be a source of trouble. Two times while cranking, I had spark, that lasted a brief time. I will double check the ground at the coil plate, and the grounds you recommended. Thank you.

07-01-2012, 06:35 PM	#7
wayja Stock Join Date: May 2012 Location: Chico, CA Posts: 10	Ok, here is what I done so far. I have resoldered the wires at the connector that goes to the coil pack and replaced the ground wire to the coil plate. Still no joy. After doing the work I cranked the engine over and then checked codes. All I am ever getting is 51. That shouldn't prevent spark should it? I have the cover off the back of the ignitor and get 12v on four wires with the key on. Is that normal? When I crank it I am not getting any voltage to light a trouble light. There is no tach movement when I crank it over either. If the ignitor was bad, would it trigger an alarm code of some kind? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

07-01-2012, 06:39 PM	#8
wayja Stock Join Date: May 2012 Location: Chico, CA Posts: 10	I guess I should also mention that I have disconnected the alarm box and jumpered the appropriate wire to ground. I have power across all fuses under the hood. It sounds like all relays are clicking.