Puzzling question

[Green7mgte]

Originally Posted by TonkaTim

Cre & Green,
*grumbles about sons & grandsons and missing tools*

Hah! that one takes me back, always loosing my gramps tools also. Guess it wasent just me!

well damn. that eliminates spark, fuel, and compression..
how about proper timing ( the engine valves should open and close in appropriate time.)
Thats all of my "simple" ideas. gonna have to go back and re evaluate other issues instead of throwing out more ideas and moving off track.
Problem with engine electronics. crank sensor, cam sensor, air flow sensor, power relay, engine computer
Ignition system problems ignition coil, commutator,distributor cap, etc.
let us know on the injectors. good luck, oh and stay warm.
The timing idea is just something outa left field I wouldent even waste time with it. but could be a possibility. I would do the electrical tests again before moving into "left field" so to speak.

the 1 click sound is the clue were looking for perhaps? Run your hand across the relay and see if you can "feel" the clicks. Cause i only hear one also. hah

oh and for the compression check just to eliminate it, the car wont start if below 70-80 psi.

read this too for electric troubleshooting. http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/spark.htm

[cre]

Agreed, I would start with checking the electrical first... Specifically, I would pull a spark plug wire and check for spark while someone is cranking the ignition.

[TonkaTim]

I can only feel & hear one click on the EFI relay.


I checked all 6 plugs by block grounding them & cranking over. All fired. That should mean I'm good on fire through the whole system. If it was a timing issue it would sputter spark the fuel.

It seems something is cutting the fuel circuit, only thing I can assume, especially when I pulled the plugs after several cranking attempts & the plugs were dry(no fuel in combustion chambers). If I can't find my meter I may have to buy another one = ( and start chasing circuits. I was reading over the schematics on the cygnusx1 site seems the fuel circuit runs through the AFM as well. May be just a bad ground somewhere. Unless the TPS with no IDL signal cuts fuel at the ECU.

Favor? - If either of you have a chance mind unplugging your TPS & see if it cranks?

[cre]

Cranks fine without the TPS, trust me... the car is even drivable with out the TPS... just rough.

Tyr placing a jumper across FP and B+ in the diagnostic box in the engine bay and then try to start. This bypasses a couple relays and powers the fuel pump directly... it'll help eliminate a bad pump as a possibility.

[TonkaTim]

Originally Posted by cre

Cranks fine without the TPS, trust me... the car is even drivable with out the TPS... just rough.

Tyr placing a jumper across FP and B+ in the diagnostic box in the engine bay and then try to start. This bypasses a couple relays and powers the fuel pump directly... it'll help eliminate a bad pump as a possibility.

Already done that too = (

[cre]

That at that point I'd get a gauge on the fuel rail and test the pressure.

[Green7mgte]

Originally Posted by cre

That at that point I'd get a gauge on the fuel rail and test the pressure.

damnit cre! took the words outa my mouth... (deletes post and starts over)

if you have spark. have compression HAVE FUEL. but not getting spray at the injectors something with your pressure is most fouled.
Possible causes of a fuel-related no start include:

1. A dead fuel pump (could be the pump, pump relay pump fuse or a fault in the pump wiring circuit)
2. A plugged fuel filter
3. Low fuel pressure (weak pump, restricted fuel line, low voltage to the pump)
If the pump runs and generates normal pressure to the engine, but the engine still does not start, the problem may be: 1. No voltage to the fuel injectors (blown injector fuse or bad relay)
2. No pulse signal to the injectors from the PCM (no crank or cam sensor input to the PCM, or a bad driver circuit in the PCM, or a wiring harness problem)
3. A shorted fuel injector (robs voltage from the other injectors so none will operate)

try #3.
i know these are basically shots in the dark. but through this thread and your leg work tim, we eliminated some major culprits. your fuel pump starts. you have some flow. your spark is good and so is compression and timing. running a battery of tests is really the only way to do this.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/fuel_pump_diagnose.htm
The first check would be to check for voltage at the injectors when the key is turned on. No voltage?
Try unplugging the injectors one at a time and cranking the engine to see if it will start. If the engine starts when a particular injector has been unplugged, that's the shorted injector that needs to be replaced.

and find that damn Ohmmeter
if it makes you feel better I haven't been able to bleed my brakes cause my g/f is scared of the cold.. i have allot of air in the line and will prolly take a good 20 minutes of bleeding. but I only get 5 minutes at a time with her in the garage.
Oh and check the voltage at the pump also! let us know on that..
think were wideling down the problems. hopefully

[cre]

What's the full story with this car? Was it parked for an extended period? Driver frequently? Any intermittent symptoms prior? Was any work done on the car recently?