Starting isssues and spark knock Q's
 

Hi everyone first post!
My name is zach and ive pretty much read all of the MKIII threads and posts. Most of which the replies are completely incoherent. Anyways, so more recently than ever I have had some starting issues. For example car will start fine all day, then sit over night and the starting problem occurs in the morning. I know it completly has to do with the electronic ignition, because if i had a distributor my grief would be much less. SO come out in morning try to crank the engine and all i get is the starter pushing the little engine that could deal (i think i can i think i can) I get out pop the hood and just jiggle the wiring harness that crosses over the valve covers. Jump back in the car give it a crank second later engine starts right up! Im guessing my 20 year old wiring harness is just having its last gulps of life. Anyone have a EDUCATED response no beat around the bush guesses?


Next point of intrest: My engine had a slight knock inbetween 2 and 3 thousand RPM. My brother-in-law a master tech at chevy said it was spark plug knock AKA Detonation. Went to the store bought new plugs and pulled the old ones. Old ones had they symptoms of detonation white, chalky electrodes. We stole some chevy octane booster (you cant get this stuff even if you ask a dealership, for tech peep only :dance:) and I then filled up with 93 octane. As of this point I still have the knock but now only between 2 and 2500 RPM. Any ideas? Next should I check the EGR function, and also check the funtions of the knock sensors. If the Knock sensors were operational should it not detect this knock and retard the air/fuel mixture? any ideas after that? Thanks

I'm glad to see your 1st post here at this incoherent forum.
Let me be the 1st to welcome you. Welcome.

You can attempt rewiring parts of the harness or you can find another used one. You're looking at probably close to 1k for a "new" used harness.

Meter your cold start injector. Obviously check all wiring harness connections.

TSRM state for plug install. You finger tighten and give them a quarter turn to the right and that's that. Any further like maybe you wratcheted them down could throw off spark and or detonation. If you did torque them down then you need to back them off and see if that helps. If not.
Sounds like rod knock.

Again...., Welcome.

We're loose in here. Why alienate anyone with your 1st post??? If you knew what to do you wouldn't be asking us, therefore... You should be asking how coherent you are as well sir.

You'll receive all the help you need or where to source it from. So long as you come correct.

That being said. These are the things that stand out to me after reading your post.

I hope this helps. Good Luck.

Wow, got a problem with hard to understand posts? Ditto... keep working on it. ;)

Have you checked for error code? I highly recommend you start there.

Cygnus X1 Home Page


EDIT: This should be obvious as well, but once you've checked for error codes check the timing.

Damn you CRE.
You're always a few steps ahead of me.

It's not so much a problem when it's 1 thing.
Once you start getting a few things my biotch makes me grind it out.

Oh oh I mean no offense in any way. I am no expert nor am I an idiot. When I bought my car I realized its a 20 year old car and I needed to be well informed of the operation of the vehicle from front to rear. 2nd reason is as they all say when you buy a used older car be prepared to spend at LEAST 100 bucks a month on it. So I believe its important to at least be somewhat self educated about problems or subjects at hand. I have the friggen 3 thousand page TSRM and pretty much read it front to back. (ocd about my cars done this for everyone I have owned) When I find a problem or have a question I always first do extensive research to, like I said become self educated of the subject at hand. But like I said doing any of this does not make me an expert. Hence the reason I posted questions. I would like others to give me thier ideas about how to solve it...sounds like im blah blah'in on but you know what im trying to say?

The reason I said that stuff is because of this. For about 4 months I have been poking around the forum checking different problems and questions. The thing that annoyed me is for example; someone will ask a question about something and some young gun teenager who's parents bought them a MKIII for thier first car, post the most redic replies. which usually end with "but i have no idea im just guessing". You see what im trying to say i ask a question i would hope to get some helpful hints, ideas, or facts to go by. I dont want to ask a question like ex. "My high beams dont seem too bright" then get a response from some smart ass that says "haha you dummie you should change your headlight fluid but i dont know its my guess i bought my car yesterday" wtf...lol i dont know how to explain it any better but can you understand it from my view. No i respect the opinions and the help from the people who know more than I do. So no offense.

Anyways besides trying to solve the pre-concieved notions that im an asshole, thanks for the replies. I didnt install the plugs right if your way is the correct way. I installed them and tightend them all the way. Ill try the loosening, my next idea if that didnt work. Since I have the EGR on should i try another heat range plug?

Yea I did diagnosis before I did anything. Gave me some code like air temp sensor, so i removed AFM cleaned all the connections and the sensor had a buncha dust and crud on it. Cleared the codes in the ECU ran diagnosis again and im good to go. So no codes, and I just got my front crankshaf seals replaced oil leaked onto timing belt so they replaced with new. Timing set and everything 3 weeks ago. And I also got back this morning from the shop they had set my idler pulley too tight on the timing belt so I had horrible idle noise. They did a quick loosen and double checked timing. Noise gone and timing dead on. So i know its not timing. Im going to try the plug loosen and see from there

Edit: Dont say those dreadful two words "rod knock" your going to make me cry...that is my intial thought but I put that evil demon aside until I check the plugs first

Why aren't you the person learning how to set the idle tensioner pulley?

You don't need us dude. You need a shop with a real mechanic if you're not going to sac up for the easy shit.

Everyone here works on there own schmaz, from what I can tell.

EDIT: I'm not trying to be aggressive. I'm wondering why you want to know since you're paying someone to work on it anyway? Throw another 50 at em and be done with it.

Wow...well lets see im in college getting masters, have 2 jobs, 2 dogs, 1cat, and pay all my bills. Do you honestly think at this point I have any time to do my own work...this is my only vehicle..so when I need something time consuming fixed I pay my good friends in the shop to do it. Take it in the morning on lets say a saturday tell them exactly what I want done, Bam all that shit done in a few hours and I can focus on my main priorities. I do all my research for problems on the side and got a master tech brother in law to help me along the way. so untill school is out hell yea ill take my car in buy the parts and practically get worked on for free. But yea if I had time fucking hell I would have rebuilt the engine already instead of wasting my time with small fixes here and there...plus i got the car in like august right when my school started. so ive had no time to pull the whole shit and start over.

ANYFUCKINGWHO...just got done looking at the plugs. I had put anti-sieze on them all so when went to check them I could loosen them up with just my hands. ReInstalled hand tight then quarter turn. Still knocking..havent chatted with bro-inlaw yet but im wandering down that dark alley way with the neon signs "rod knock"..

For the money you're going to spend over the next year.
You could have paid for half of a brand new economy car.
With zero...., headaches.

And that's with free labor. Because you can't half ass anything on these cars.

All the points you mentioned for not being the person turning wrenches on your idle tensioner pulley sound more like a list of reason you should have gone a different route.

I personally. Have no interest in further aiding someone that only wants to know what someone is supposedly doing to their car.

IF, it's rod knock. A rebuild is in your near future and not just the top end.
ALL OF IT. If you choose to go with a JDM engine. A rebuild is still in your future if you want a sound set of wheels.

You can read all of the threads and posts you want spudz.
It's getting into the car and utilizing those threads that brings them home.
Without the experience. You're just a fountain of exponential information.

So i guess you just dont understand what im saying...i find out whats wrong...buy parts if needed..get my good buddies to fix it...then quick fix is done..i can drive to school...FYI quick fixes are just to hold me up until the summer time...when i have time....im going to pull the head on this shit, machine, rebuild, and frankenstien the old head on this block (old block had crack) pull the pan and check the bearings and everything else i come across i want to fix myself for a complete rebuild when i have TIME IE THE SUMMER...you dont think i can pull a fucking timing cover off and loosen a bolt to the tensioner to stop a noise...wow...well since im busy...i didnt have time myself to drain coolant take off fan remove therm housing pull timin cover loosen tensioner check timing fix my sqealing ac pulley..replace everything and still have time to go to classes my 2 jobs and fucking take care of a farm my girlfriend has in my living room...i cant comprehend why you are even arguing with me about this...i asked for some advice from fellow 7M owners and i get complaints of no balls because i dont put the wrench time in because im busy...thats fine say what you want i asked for tech advice not life advice Thanks

Alright sorry about the arguing, but lets be adults and put the differences behind us and focus at the subject at hand...(its called stress and it came out and now i have calmed down, got a beer so lets talk)

So belive me..im done, and your advice and tips are much appreciated...Thanks

Ok i guess im going to factor out spark knock and this is exactly what is sounds like but i do not have the noise at idle..just on rev starting at 2grand....YouTube - Supra Knock?

if you think this is rod knock, im going to pull the oil pan this weekend and check the bearings

PS. I know this is off subject but, my seals and bearings are shot in my turbo and i was researching rebuild kits, and found this site. The have complete reman ct26 turbo with brand new CHRA as of march and you can even upgrade your trim sizes just a cool site i would share. Home

Thanks for making my point exactly.
Frankenstiening the head to the block.
Good lord. You can't expect that to last. That's normally the weakest part of the engine.

If your block is toast your car is grounded.

I'm trying to help you man, but you don't want to see that it's your thought process that is part of your problem. You're not fixing anything and when you're actually faced with fixing it instead of bandaids that don't do anything for these cars the price tag and the time are going to be much more massive and time consuming than they are right now.

I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot man.
But you came in here running your suck about our inefficiencies as a collective.

Maybe you can visualize an easier road to tow. I'm not allowed to act like I'm acting right now in here but I believe in this forum and all of its members. I'll stand up all day for these guys. Even you man. Some toyota mechanics still follow the wrong torque specs on cars from 1985 because the tsrm is printed wrong.

If a toyota tech can make that error. Your master tech probably has as well. Unless you have pre-exponentially enlightened him such as you have me today.

No you see i wasnt trying to offend anyone..i just got defensive and im putting my foot in my mouth...

My bro-in-law is master tech at chevy, expertise in diagnosis...so his opinions are quite brief and usually only for small things..

thats what im talking about i need some tips...okay, bought used 7m motor and when i got it did some test before dropping it in...major crack in block..the company sent me another engine for free and told me to keep the old one (two engines for the price of one! lol) so here and there i have taken parts off it. if it is the same engine why can i not take the head off the not used one rebuild and mount to the block thats in my car now?

Wow... So... wanna wrestle?






Just kidding. Seriously though, you wouldn't happen to be manic would you? Take some time with your posts and break up those paragraphs some more. You're posting way more than needed and most of it's repetitive.

Double check the codes, sometimes it takes a while for the ECU to store them.

How's your oil pressure at 2K and how is it from 3K on up? What weight oil do you have in the car?

Has anyone used a stethoscope to try and track down where the noise is coming from?

Has anyone checked to rule out an exhaust leak where the manifold bolts to the head? From 2K to 2.5K the 7M is at it's worst where harmonic resonance is concerned. Exhaust leaks in that spot typically sound like a knock and are the loudest in that RPM range.

When the timing was verified, did they just check the advance or did they check to ensure the timing was mechanically correct (two very different things)?




Lastly, the hand tight and 1/4 turn thing is garbage... tighten them to spec and be sure it's done right. Over do it and you'll be looking for a new head.




EDIT: Who said you couldn't swap the heads? Just have the new one check to be sure it's flat and have a hardness test done. The hardness test is a must since you don't know if the block was crack from shipping or the engine being run into the ground.

LOL nope but I have a bad case of insomnia and addicted to adderall.

Funny thing you should mention oil pressure. I have 2 gauges one in the dash cluster and another aftermarket mounted next to shifter.

Dash cluster has never worked and aftermarket one never has correct readings it just fluctuates rapidly then will sit steady then go crazy again. Its the OilPresSender connection i think its gone bad.

Timing checked mechanica

And no since its my first day trying to diagnos this knock i have yet to listen. I did a redneck check put screwdriver on valve covers rev'd it up and it didnt seem to be louder.

Edit: Oh the wieght i use is 20w-50 i live down in South Carolina and trust me one of the hottest places in america 100 degree weather with 95% humidity...feels like 120 degrees..

Please don't make me drag out the tsrm man.

I don't know where at in there I read it but I know I read it in tsrm to finger tighten and then a quarter turn to tighten. I assumed that was to the right.

I'm sure it is. Is there a different way?
And if so what the H?

Spudz. I'm sorry as well. We are all here to learn ^^^^^.

You can cut off the ends of a wooden broom handle and touch it to the engine and your temple and hear inside as well also.

Cause we don't all carry steths like cre does.:gotnos:

13ft. lbs for the spark plugs.

I don't carry a stethoscope everywhere I go... just out to the garage and on first dates... it helps qualify the girls limits real fast. :eek3:

i guess im going to track down the sound tom. but it does sound like that youtube video

i will have to make a stop tom. also i think i will rob the hospital and get some steth's

The gauntlet has been thrown down my friend.

I'll find it. Oh yes. And when I do you're going to hear about it cre.

I think you're so damn good, you make shite up as you go along and it just sounds transcendent.

You're telling me I didn't get this from my tsrm???? Hmmmmm
are ya are ya???:squint:

I'm sorry again spudz.

Ya generally have to be here for a little while before you start shooting for the " NO DICKS ALLOWED" pm:).

Not a joke. I have received that message.

Here, found the info on the plugs for you. MK3 TSRM On-Line


The video could very likely be rod knock, but I've been convinced before that a car had rod knock when it was an exhaust leak. Do like Supramacist suggested and grab a broom stick. If you'd thrown a valve shim you'd know it, listening to the valve cover would be downright painful.

Look, I already explained and apologized about that one. I was having an off week and wasn't being as understanding as I should have been... God! When will you let it rest? :nuts:

I have it on tap son. Whenever yoooooooou want some more.
I'm your guy. I'm letting it age so it just keeps get more and more fine.

Someday this will be a sought after vintage. But alas. I will have a nissan and then where will all of you be. Yes.
I wouldn't mind venturing a guess.

Like to hear it? Here it goes.

Tightening you spark plugs to 13 lbs.

Damn this cyngus noise.

I guess im shooting all over the place today but off subject question.

I was looking for a JDM 7MGTE to throw in the car after I pull the old engine for a awesome rebuild.

The specs say the JDM 7M fits 89-90 but I have a 87/88 hybrid..

will the JDM fit my 87/88 engine bay or is thier some difference in MKIII engine bay size since the JDM sites are saying 89-90 fit :sadwavey:

The differences between pre89 and 89+ are: wiring harness connectors (not all), and motor mounts. So you'll need to swap some sensors, keep your wiring harness and swap the motor mounts.

I have no idea what is meant by 87/88 hybrid.

How many people out there have a supra as there main car and still get time to overhaul the engine. I did. But my boss lived a street down from me and picked me up from work.
You said you knew what you were in for buying a 20 year old car $100 a month, for a few months you don't spend anything, and then $2000. I bet it is more than just a puncture too. Do you still believe that, because I'm sure quite a few others in this forum don't.

No offense. Not been nasty, just blunt. Besides Supra's are an awesome car, when they work!! lol

oh that is what I call my car drivers side door trim says 87 but I have a buncha 88 parts installed when I got it so I call it a 87/88 hybrid

Weren't those cars made only 1 year?

I have no idea but i have not seen another like mine...like when I researched year differences. it has 87 body interrior has a buncha 88 parts like seats vinyl seat belt guides climate control switch locations etc...

So i call it Hybrid.. haha whats next a 89 JDM motor...my car is going to be so confused

Dude...., you may have a problem.

The car you have is an 87.5
This means that early on in 87 they did something that they had to correct somehow. They changed tooling or some shite.

And at that juncture you got an 87 with 88 up grades. So stick to 87/88 parts. Here's the part where I explain how important it is for you to build a rapport with your toyota parts guys. They need to have your vin # on file and make sure to research that # when lookig for parts. This ensures you of 1 thing. You up your chances of getting the right part the 1st time.

Now I'ma break it down justa tell a little story.
I have a 91. so 90/91 and 92 parts work on my car. So that's anywhere from 3 to 6 part #'s for these bafoons to boobery through.

I have heard about this make and model. It's rare. It's got all the headaches of the 86.5 and then some.

I THINK
You may have a car that 86/ 86.5/87/87.5/ and 1988 parts work on. So you may have 5 to 10 part #'s For the hourly tarderies to drull through. Now I'm trying to make a point.

The point is: Parts guys don't like to work. You have to deal with the MGR. Not his to,go boy. ESPECIALLY WHEN ORDERING PARTS.

I have my guys cell #. I can text him. I have his personal e mail account.
He has me set up on shop rates What's that tell you??? I say to you that it means I hit them up for parts for this 1 car. As much as the small local mechanics that are big enough to be a real shop hits' them up for toyota parts. So ya 100 bucks a month. It's 100 bucks every time it breaks down. And lately it's been 175ing me to death. Which reminds me. Buy parts with warranties!!!!

But. None of this never would have transpired had I not built a rapport with them. See....., now I can eat their ass's a bit when my shit is wrong. They know what I expect and they know that once I come onto the seen the only way to make me leave is buy finding my trash. They also know that when they drop the ball and I leave them peacefully. I have done them a favor.

I'm just a guy with a supra off the street. Yet I can phone in an order for a few grand in parts and they'll order them in, no Q's asked.

You're either wagging the dog sir. Or the dog is wagging you.

Supra is a lifestyle. Gasoline, Coolant and oil are all about to become your DNA.

If you aren't dreaming about solving your cars riddles in your sleep. Then you're not where you need to be. But that's just me.

Here's where I tell you that all of these are just opinions and there is a reason they are free.

GD.

That was nearly prophetic.
IT ended in song. I think I heard harmonizing angels of prophecy bellowing in desire of the shear fact of my rant.

I may need to ease the throttle back a bit.

Decaf, seriously.

There were numerous times when a model revision overlapped a previous model. With the '87's moving on to '88 the changes involved nothing more than cosmetics really. Now when the shift from '88 to '89 came around... then you got the rare wacko hybrid good luck finding a wiring diagram, much less finding the right replacement sensor, frankenstein crap.

Hell, my '88 uses an air flow meter from a modern Corvette!? WTF?

Okay, that's enough OT... I'm out.

It's hard work striving for your standards Professor.
I'm giving her all she's got skipper.

If I give her any more she's a gonna blow.

Bom chicka wow wow.

We've just hit 68,000 microjules.
If we hit 69. She may blow a rod.:)

Ha yea thats what i was thinking about the year issue also..

But hell no i dont let them buy any of my parts im real anal about that, because you never know what those idiots put in there. I def dont want some universal shit going on my engine!

So i def buy all my parts myself and bring em' to them, if I even bring them my car period. I buy nothing but (for right now, mods might change a few things) 87/88 OEM parts either from toyota or advance where i get a discount cuz im with one of thier store clubs.

so pretty much oem parts from advance and if its impossible to get i drag myself to toyota and give them another body piece for hard to find parts.

But just got home from work and exam, so im going to chill and let the engine cool a bit then go do my redneck steth listen and try to pin point sound

Highly advise you to not buy any real trash from advanced for tis all they sell.

That's mistake #1 of most new supra owners. Cutting cost corners and attempting to fix things on the cheap.

Simply put..., it can't be done. Not as a long term fix.

Once you start this cycle. It never bloody ends.

I'm on my 3rd power steering pump from advanced.

Because they could get it in the fastest and was 1 of the 1st mistakes I made as well.

When the warranty's gone..., so shall I be.

Oh word thanks for the heads up, but I have not bought anything big. So far just oil, some spark plugs, and a few water sensors thats about all i can remember...

BUT the conclusion is in...I take back what I said yesterday, I guess i just was not able to replicate the engine noise the best from in the engine bay.
I go my girlfriend to jump in the car and hold it at around 2200-2500 rpm.

noise was very noticable, so i grabbed the old broom stick and started poking around..and it is super loud on exhaust side valve cover and louder at the front and back of the cover. (FYI i did poke around everywhere top, middle, and under engine) and CRE i put up to exhaust mani to head and heard nothing but thanks for the tip.

So loudest on exhaust valve cover. IDK much about the whole vavle set up so i need to do some reading. But is this a pretty bad noise that needs to be fixed soon, or could i just hold off until i throw my rebuilt head on?

Pull the valve cover and check to see if you've thrown a shim... it sounds like it's either that or possibly a burned up valve. I suppose it could even be a snapped spring. You'll know more once you pull the cover and look.

Okay if I pull the cover..do i leave oil in since it will settle on the bottom...(never done this before with engine in car..)?

Im lazy and ive got some pretty new gaskets on there do i need to get some new ones or can i just slap on the old ones when i put it back together.

You only have to remove the the y pipe from the upper plenum and if you're careful you can reuse that seal if it's semi new. That 1 maybe metal if you're lucky.

Yes. You leave the earl in it.

Do not remove the cams...., unless you absolutely have to and if you do use something like some white out to mark something so you can put it back in just so.

Shims are about as big around as a nickel. They can very in thickness.

And before you start asking for the future. You will not want to attempt a valve job. There's like 100 billion parts:crazy::crazy2::outahere::dunno: