OK thanks for the detailed response about the No.2 timing cover, I really appreciate it.

That CD has the same exact software that the dealers use. I know what you mean about them breathing down your neck while you try and locate the parts you need. Must be nice having that software at home! The dealer must think you are some kind of Toyota genius coming up with all the part #'s.

I noticed the time lag (or warp) in our posts.

Thanks again Bill UK!!

bill where did you get that software?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-ELECTRONIC-PARTS-CATALOGUE-EPC-5-CDs_W0QQitemZ250069576904QQihZ015QQcategoryZ36086Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Just received my ARP head bolts. I always wondered what the big deal is between stock bolts and ARP bolts. After seeing them in person I now know why. The quality is unsurpassed.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/DSC00556.jpg

Plus the technology that ARP incorporates into their products is amazing. They take into account the amount of torque lost to the amount of friction between the bolt and the block.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/DSC00557.jpg

For 12mm (shank not bolt head) 190,000psi tensile strength studs (they don't list 12mm bolts they only go up to 10mm bolts) they say use 86 ft/lbs of torque. It also says that is a general specification its not application specific. So what torque spec. have you used Bill UK? Or anyone that has done this themselves?

Thank you!

I already ran a bottom tap through the 14 head bolt holes in the block. I'm still going to use brake cleaner and blow the holes out with compressed air.

I test fitted the bolts and I noticed that you can just barely fit a 3/8" drive 14mm socket in between the lifter bores. The walls are machined (from the factory) just enough to fit a 14mm socket. It's like they did it just for ARP bolts (I doubt it!). It's nice to have something work out in your favor once in a while (or just once).

http://cgi.ebay.com/2005-TOYOTA-ELECTRONIC-PARTS-CATALOGUE-EPC-on-DVD_W0QQitemZ300069111472QQihZ020QQcategoryZ122110 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

that would rock

i think i did 80lb ish on the last one .
i've been thinking about hitting it harder just to be sure (er)

So 86 ft/lbs it is. That is what the box says and I think ARP knows what they are doing.

I just got done running circles around the parts department people at my nearest Toyota dealership. If they didn't have a parts manager there I'd be SOL. I swear to god I had 4 different parts people try to help me with no luck, they were that incompetent. Parts manager comes along and tells them to move and for me to come behind the counter and says "Just bring up the screen, he'll just point out the parts." If I got a job there I'd be assistant manager in about a day.

Well after meeting Dan (ddmcse) I'm even less confident that I will be able to use this head.

He suggested that I post a pic and see what you guys think.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/DSC00562.jpg

That's cylinder 6's cooling passage on the exhaust manifold side.

Will I ever get a good seal using a stock head gasket here?

Wow Bill UK you always seem to have just the information I'm looking for. Thank you!!

Wow that head looks mint, I wish mine looked like that.

Yes the damage on the left extends out farther than the damage on the right. I'd say 2.5-3mm.

I was just saying that to myself about it not being near the combustion chamber. There is far greater pressure in the combustion chamber (180psi) than in the cooling passages (15psi).

Thank you for the input it is greatly appreciated!!!

hey man, im ganan start my hg job soon, this week or next. and i just wanted to know ur total money spent. i wnana knwo how much im ganan need. but im ganan get my head shaved for free seeing as we have the machien to do it in our shop class. thanks.

marc

This may be an alternative to welding, they manufacture allsorts of polymers, aluminium epoxy putty etc for repairing worn or damaged castings and shafts; you would need to check out the temperature resistance. Many years ago I repaired an air-bearing surface on a granite bed CNC PCB drilling machine, it set as hard as the granite. I also remember it was quite expensive .Many be worth contacting them for some advice.
http://www.devcon.com
http://www.devcon.com/maintenance.cfm
http://www.devcon.com/devconcatsolution.cfm?catid=16

Marc-

Felpro MLS head gasket kit: $225 (Which included a multi layer steel head gasket, intake manifold gasket, intake chamber gasket, exhaust manifold gasket, turbo to exhaust manifold gasket, turbo to O2 housing gasket, O2 housing to downpipe gasket, turbo water line gasket, water outlet housing gasket, EGR cooler gasket, EGR valve to intake manifold gasket, EGR valve to intake chamber gasket, cam position sensor O-ring, thermostat gasket, fuel injector O-rings, valve cover gaskets, valve cover grommets, and ISC valve gasket)
Machine work: $200 (Including having them weld and tap new threads for my exhaust manifold studs)
ARP head bolt kit: $109 (shipped)
The following parts were bought from a Toyota dealer-
Timing belt: $38.37
Timing belt tensioner: $136.28
Timing belt tensioner spring: $6.51
Fuel injector insulators: $19.32 (rubber part that goes from the injector to the head)
Fuel injector grommets: $19.32 (rubber part that goes from the injector to the fuel rail, the little O-rings came with the head gasket kit)
Turbo oil line feed, fuel rail feed, and cold start injector to fuel rail sealing washers: $5.58 (6 in all, they are all the same part #)
Turbo oil pipe to block gasket: $3.18
Turbo oil pipe to turbo gasket: $2.74
Heater union sealing washers: $3.52
Water by pass pipe to water outlet housing hose: $18.32 (I had to cut mine off, you may not need this part)
Water by pass pipe to heater union hose: $19.74 (same deal, you may not need this part but its always good to install new ones while you are doing it)
Cold start injector to intake manifold gasket: $2.87
Cold start injector to fuel line sealing washers: $2.22
Auxiliary air pipe to vacuum transmiting pipe vacuum hose: $10.80 (mine split when I pulled it off, you may not need this part)
ISC to intake manifold coolant hose: $23.27 (I replaced this part because the only time you can get at the hose is with the intake manifold apart)
Throttle body to water by pass pipe coolant hose: $19.91 (same deal)
Heater core inlet hose: $43.46 (might as well replace these with the head off)
Heater core outlet hose: $32.75

I get a 20% discount from my Toyota dealer so my grand total is $825.76. Minus the $200 for the machine work and you are looking at $625 and that's with my 20% off and IF you buy the exact head gasket kit that I bought. There are many out there for cheaper as well as metal head gaskets which cost $200-300 themselves. You are probably looking at around 700-800 dollars if you do the exact same thing I did.

I will check that option out Bill UK, thanks!

And Marc, there's more to machine work than just shaving the sealing surface. You must check it for cracks and not just ones you can see on the sealing surface, ones that could be inside the head where you can't see, like in the water jacket area. I don't know how they do it but a machine shop has special equipment to check for these cracks. You must also check the head for warpage. Remember, if a head is warped on the sealing surface, it's also warped throughout the entire head all the way up to the cam cover surface. You also have to clean the head. A machine shop uses special equipment that uses ultrasonic waves to clean the head. And the shop I used set my valve lash with brand new shims. Along with welding and re-threading my exhaust manifold stud holes, $200 was really not that bad. Trust me, its worth every penny sending the head to a machine shop.

One last word of advice I have for you, when you loosen the head bolts, of course do it in the proper order per TSRM but remember to loosen them in 3 increments. Don't just take one out then move to the next one and take that one out. Crack the first one loose then move to the next, then when you just barely cracked all 14 loose, go back and loosen them some more, but don't fully loosen them until you've done all 14 3 times. I know its confusing but its because you can crack your head if you don't relieve the pressure (that the head bolts are exerting) evenly.

whered u get that gasket set..if u could get me the link id owe u big time.

whats the difference between the turbo cylinder head, and the n/a cylinder head?

well i mean can the n/a head fit onto the 7mgte or do they use a different head?

I bought my gasket set from the machine shop that did the work for my head.

If you strip everything off of a N/A cylinder head it is the same exact thing as a turbo head. It's what bolts to the head that makes the difference, like the intake chamber, distributor and cam covers. The cams are the same, the valves are the same, the valve clearances are the same. Only thing different between the turbo and N/A cylinder head are the warpage limits.

but im asking can i use an n/a cylinder head for my turbo car. i found a refursbished head, machined and checked already, but its from a n/a. comes with cams and everything all assembled. so i was wonderign if i baught it, would it be able to fit on. or wuld i need ot modify it.

any1? any idea?

I just told you the answer in my last post. Slow down and read it. It says that a GTE head is the same as the GE head when stripped down to nothing. You need a GTE cam sensor, intake chamber (the part the throttle body bolts to) and GTE cam covers.

Now that I'm thinking about it I wouldn't doubt that some of the bracket mounting stud holes for the throttle linkage, the pvc pipe or the turbo stay (that attach to the side of the head) are not in a GE head, so I don't know. I would say why hack it, just use a GTE head and SHIP IT.

Now that marc hijacked this thread, I'm bringing it back on track.

For anyone who wants to know, you MUST use a 1/2" 12 point shallow socket for 7MGTE ARP head bolts. 14mm 6 point fits but will round/strip the head of the bolt. 13mm 12 point fits but again will strip the head of the bolt. So a shallow 1/2" 12 point 3/8" drive socket is what must be used with ARP head bolts to clear the lifter bores and cams and to properly grab the bolt.

Will have pics of the install soon.

my bad on that 1 too didnt mean to jack it lol

Ok finally got a day when it wasn't 20 degrees outside, so I threw the head on. If it didn't start snowing I would have gotten alot more done.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/DSC00565.jpg

So I torqued the ARP head bolts to 70 ft/lbs. That was as far as I felt comfortable going. All you lunatics that do 90 ft/lbs, you got balls. I first did them hand tight, then hit them with a rachet in the TSRM order, then I torqued to 20 ft/lbs then 32, then 55, then 65 then 70. All in the TSRM order. There are 2 TSRM orders for head bolts one for loosening head bolts and one for tighening head bolts, just thought I'd mention it. I used Copper RTV where the TSRM says to, where the timing case and block meet. It's good up to 700 degrees and 2X stronger between oily surfaces.

Should have it running by this weekend. Unless we get like a foot of snow.

Any input on the head bolt torque?

give 'er one more click

you said you was gonna follow arp specs

do you really wanna be sitting at a light. watching the temp gauge wiggle and wonder if you shoud have applied 5 more lbs ? i don't think so
hit it !

rut roh

i'm on the shoreline and it's doing a freezing percip type thing which prolly means snow where u are..

p.s. from the looks of where you're at , it's all down hill now (nothing but putting bolts back on)

Well its 40 degrees right now, which is warm by my standards, I will get some more done today.

Yeah I said alot of things in this thread, but when it comes down to the wire I let my instincts take over.

First of all the ARP specs are general specs not vehicle specific specs. 86ft/lbs is for ALL 12mm ARP studs not bolts. They don't even list 12mm bolts. Plus factory specs are 58 ft/lbs that means the engineers at toyota built the HEAD and the block threads to withstand 58 ft/lbs not 90!! I'm just really worried about cracking the head or overtorquing the head gasket. I think 70 ft/lbs is a nice medium. Plus they are tight as hell!!

I know the ARP bolts are stronger than normal bolts so I'm not worried about snapping them, Im worried about stripping the block threads or f-ing up the head or gasket. Im not using a metal head gasket, just a MLS Felpro one.

Well started around noon time and called it quits around 4. After all the work done to the head on the exhaust manifold studs, one of them will not hold 29 ft/lbs of torque and is pulling the threads out of the head everytime I go to torque it. All the ones the shop welded and retapped are fine, it's one that has the stock threads. Toyota has the softest aluminum in this world. I'm very pissed right now. Now I have to buy another exhaust manifold gasket and install a helicoil. Besides that BS I managed to install the crank pulley, timing belt, lower timing cover, tensioner and spring. I torqued the crank pulley to 150ft/lbs because thats as far as my torque wrench goes.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/DSC00566.jpg

Looks great. I hate head bolts, my friend stripped 2 of them today trying to get a head off his prelude.

Your worst nightmare-

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/DSC00568.jpg

I'd rather trade 10 blown head gaskets for 1 stripped out bolt threads. This is the 4th helicoil I had to install into this head. I'd rather have had to do the head gasket 40 times over.

And this happened NOT from overtorqueing, I have a DIGITAL torque wrench that displays LIVE real time torque values 5 times a second. This is to prove that Toyota aluminum is weak and will strip out from normal torque values.

How do my new threads look? These were made by my me, a non-professional. Just an amateur automotive technician. No power tools or machines.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/DSC00569.jpg

It sucks working on a car from 9 am to 4 pm in 25 degree weather.

lol
it's a love hate relationship for sure

You can say that again Dan. Just installed the helicoil and put the exhaust manifold on.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/DSC00570.jpg

Now it's classroom time! I borrowed a friends tech school book and was browsing the bolt torque section and found this chart. It showed the correct torque value modification due to lubricant on the threads. I found this interesting. I used copper anti-seize on the perfectly clean brand new studs. On this chart it says with anti seize on the threads to use a 40% reduction in torque (OEM specified torque). I did the math and for 29 ft/lbs thats 17.4 ft/lbs (good thing my digital torque wrench goes to tenths of a foot pound). But I didn't feel comfortable torquing at such a low value so I only did a 15% reduction this time which is 24.65 ft/lbs but I just did 24 ft/lbs (actually 23.6 ft.lbs). Yeah I like to get technical when It comes to torqueing shit.