5m-ge future engine mods?

[mechrider89]

Thanx for all the help guys! glad to see the forum a little more active. I'm just working on the brakes now then getting the car painted over the winter. I've been looking for after market calipers but was told there are none, anyone know what I can swap with? I got rotors and bearings but need calipers.
Also sorry for the late reply been working on the oil rigs so im not home much anymore.

[mechrider89]

Originally Posted by AustinHunter

I did this back in the late 80's! The same still applies.

1. First, lighten your car as much as possible; AC compressor, heat shields, exhaust, etc.

2. Header back exhaust (not sure who makes headers now, but they are out there). don't buy an exhaust system - have a muffler shop do one for you - I used 2.5" pipe; get a really good free flow muffler.

3. Make sure you port match your head - intake and exhaust sides - to your header and intake manifolds and polish. This is important.

4. Ditch the fan, go electric, makes a difference on high rpms.

5. I never saw a difference with aftermarket coils and wires, but it never hurts. Indexing the spark plugs made a difference.

6. Build a new air intake hose assembly. Cut a hole out under the current air filter housing and run a hose down that faces forward under the lower spoiler - poor mans ram air or do a hood pop-up. replacing the intake from the airbox to the throttle valve - the resonator sucks.

7. Polish air meter box sharp edges and throttle body. There is an aftermarket TB you can get for the intake that is a bit larger.

8. Go custom pistons - .120 over to 3 liters and 10:1 compression (or more). factory rods are fine.

9. Valve springs are weak, I used shims to tigthen mine up - worked great.

10. Cams - not sure if you can still get reground cams (and according lash shims), but you can also order Japanese market cams.

I did all of this, plus suspension. I don't know what horsepower I got, but it was a fast as the late 80's V8 mustangs and handled much better.

If I was going to do it again? I'd probably drop in an American high rev, high HP, low/med torque small block.

Thanx for sharing the the info man! I dont know if im going to upgrade the original engine anymore. I might just put and LS1 engine in her and swap the drive tran but we'll see whats cheaper! haha

[d557charger]

Hi,
I used to work as a tech at a Dodge dealership (haha, I agree - except for Dodges from right now and the ones from '64-'72).
Anyway, a tuning situation once came up and we were all divided about the fan issue. In my own research I found many many articles on the internet showing that an electric fan will nearly rob as much power as a clutch type mechanical one. Think about it, there's no such thing as free power, so to spin that fan, the alternator has to be robbing more hp to feed more electricity to the fan motor. Even if no power were lost going from mechanical => electric => mechanical power again the amount of power needed to spin a fan should remain the same. You may gain a few hp, like one or two (and that only well below the power band for the 5M), and it might improve your mph some... but I personally don't think it's worth the time, effort & jury rigging.

Either way though, no fan of either type can push as much air over the engine as traveling even at 15 ~20 mph can do, and electric fans cut out before that speed, and mechanical fans have clutches that slip out before 3,000 rpm (meaning a mechanical fan cannot steal hp when your engine is running over 3,000 rpm, unless the clutch is stuck), so it's kind of half dozen one way, half dozen the other ... IMHO

Anyway, this is my first post - I'm hoping to get a like new '85 Celica Supra in the coming weeks! It's been a while since I had a sports car so seeing the tuning ideas are welcome!

[d557charger]

I would also caution against the LS1, simply because changing the engine will change where the car's center of gravity is, and the height of that center of gravity.

... and you'll have to upgrade the front suspension for the extra weight. You'll be sacrificing nimbleness for straight line speed...

... and we'll have one less member to talk about 5m tuning with...

[CanadianBak'inSupra]

what is weight difference between the ls1 and 5mge??
engine is about 300 and w58 is around 90 dry.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/dean.anderson4/weights.html
1uz is about 390 i think.
ls1 is about the same i think a little heavier.

[CanadianBak'inSupra]

lots of goodies on this site.
diff rebuilds
http://rabidchimp.com/mkii-supra-82-...train.html?p=1

2mm oversiezed TB
http://rabidchimp.com/mkii-supra-82-...ttle-body.html

intakes
http://rabidchimp.com/mkii-supra-82-...take-pipe.html

lots of stuff you may liek for the 5m. he even sells 6mge
hes an approved vendor on celicasupra.com

[mechrider89]

Originally Posted by d557charger

I would also caution against the LS1, simply because changing the engine will change where the car's center of gravity is, and the height of that center of gravity.

... and you'll have to upgrade the front suspension for the extra weight. You'll be sacrificing nimbleness for straight line speed...

... and we'll have one less member to talk about 5m tuning with...

Believe me when I say I'd rather keep the original engine, I have a friend who's looking up what changes I'd all have to do to swap to an LS1 engine. Definitely not looking good, I'll be gaining an extra 240 pounds and ya my center of gravity will change, etc. So I think the 5m is going to stay, I hate straight line cars, pointless.

[87hilux7mge]

it all depends on what kinda power you want. LS motors give great power and do really way much more than a 7m.

there will be a crap ton of low end tq with a v8, and with the v8, i think the center of gravity will actually be lower, which would be a good thing.

im more in favor of keeping the 5m tho, as im a fan of keeping them brand specific.

if i get the chance, i want to tryin and build a hopped up 5m sometime.

[87hilux7mge]

Originally Posted by d557charger

Hi,
I used to work as a tech at a Dodge dealership (haha, I agree - except for Dodges from right now and the ones from '64-'72).
Anyway, a tuning situation once came up and we were all divided about the fan issue. In my own research I found many many articles on the internet showing that an electric fan will nearly rob as much power as a clutch type mechanical one. Think about it, there's no such thing as free power, so to spin that fan, the alternator has to be robbing more hp to feed more electricity to the fan motor. Even if no power were lost going from mechanical => electric => mechanical power again the amount of power needed to spin a fan should remain the same. You may gain a few hp, like one or two (and that only well below the power band for the 5M), and it might improve your mph some... but I personally don't think it's worth the time, effort & jury rigging.

didnt see this last time i posted. anyway, an electric fan is far less drag on the motor itself. the fans pull power from the battery, not the alternator directly. think of the battery as a bank, and your fans are a loan you take out. the bank still has plenty of money left in it, and the alternator is payin off the loan in installments over time.

the drag from the alternator is minimal. an alternator doesnt actually create more resistance on the engine if more power is required. the brushes will wear faster and the alternator will be stressed, heating up and potentially failing.

we replaced my freinds 06 f150 fan/clutch assembly with an electric (yes it was a lil mad max-ish) and even with it redneck engineered, hes seeing 1.4 mpg better and his 0-60 time dropped .6 seconds. off the line you can definitely feel it. mechanical fans have an actual drag on the motor.

it draws 18 amps at full load, and he only needs the fan sitting in traffic for over 30 min. winter time he doesnt use it at all. keeps a constant 194* coolant temp. id say its worth it, especially if you fork it for a set of flexalites or cooltecs etc.

[cre]

Faraday's law and Lenz's law... any generator requires much more power the greater the load placed upon it. There's no escaping it and your friend hasn't discovered a new kind of physics. All car electronics are powered by the alternator unless the alternator is too small (otherwise you'd have a dead battery all the time).... even if that weren't the case, when do you expect the battery to get charged? You can pull the battery on a running car and drive all day (with a CEL on modern cars but it'll still run); You can't pull the alternator and get more than an hour with an awesome battery.

The upside to electric is that the turn completely off when you're cool but then again at highway speeds air blows through with enough force that there really isn't any load on a mechanical fan. Lightweight flex fans are my preference. At high RPM not only does the fan slow but the blades flatten.



EDIT: The thing both sides forget to consider in this whole debate is that an inefficient system can always be improved. An electric fan setup may indeed provide more power in lieu of an inefficient mechanical one and, vice versa, a more efficient mechanical fan may prove much better than an inefficient electric setup. Believe it or not fan technology has changed drastically in just the past 5 years, both mechanical and electric, anything's bound to be an improvement over the 20+ year old setup if implemented well.