2JZGE to 2JZGTE Swap Questions

[[SupraLEGEND]]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

The OS Gikken clutch isn't bad, but it doesn't stand up to HARD driving that well. I have a friend that had the twin disc version in his Supra, and he had to get the springs in the sprung-hub sections replaced several times. Again, it's an okay clutch, but not anywhere near a top-of-the-line clutch for the Mkiv Supra Turbo 6spd like this one:
http://www.titanmotorsports.com/tiltripcarcl.html


By the way, do you even know if it's a twin, triple or quad-disc Gikken? Here is the list of possible OS Gikken part numbers for the Mkiv Turbo:

• TS2CD
• TR2CD
• TS3B
• TS3BW
• R3C
• R4C

Regarding the Endless pads, which compound are they? We still don't have enough information about them. Here are the choices for Endless compounds:

• LF1
• LF2
• LF3
• MX72
• CC-R
• SSM
• SSY
• NS97
• ME20
• N03W
• N35S
• N40S
• N45S
• S89F
• S90F
• S91F
• S93F
• MA45B
• ES88G

Some of these pads might be absolutely horrible, like the EBC pads that warmkop used. At least find out specifically which pad it is, and then after that we can discuss how well they fit your application.

The Tilton clutch seems good but, is VERY EXPENSIVE and is aimed at very high horsepower figures. A good single plate clutch like the Giken should handle up to 500RWHP possibly more? No, I don't know how many plates - need to wait for them to tell me that. Do you know if the Giken clutch outperforms the OEM one?

What do you think of the brand Endless??

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

The Tilton clutch seems good but, is VERY EXPENSIVE...

It's all relative. For example, compare it to this clutch:
http://www.titanmotorsports.com/tiqudifor93s.html

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...and is aimed at very high horsepower figures...

No - again, the sprung-hub design is a weakness...and that design feature is for comfort and reliability NOT "very high horsepower".

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...A good single plate clutch like the Giken should handle up to 500RWHP possibly more?...

Didn't you read the information at the link you yourself posted? Gikken doesn't make a single disk clutch for the Mkiv Supra Turbo. Why ask this question?

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...No, I don't know how many plates - need to wait for them to tell me that....

Please note that all clutches have a single pressure plate. It's only the number of clutch disks and floater plates that vary.

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...Do you know if the Giken clutch outperforms the OEM one?....

Of course it does, but most of the reason for that is that it is only offered for the Mkiv in multiple disk versions.

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...What do you think of the brand Endless??

I'm not aware of anything wrong with that brand, I suppose. However, talking about the specific compound of pad installed on the Supra you're considering is more relevant. A compound that's great on the track can not only be 'bad' on the street...it can be dangerous. For example, Endless' S580 pad material wouldn't just be a bit dangerous - most likely you'd wreck your car with it. It takes a lot of hard braking just to bring that pad up to the temperature where it grabs. Before that, it feels like the pad is a solid stone and has almost no grip at all on the rotors.

To be honest though, the overall relevance of pads to the car purchase is a secondary consideration at most. Brake pads are consumeables, just like gasoline, oil, and transmission fluid. Is the exact type a consideration - sure...but only for the period of time until it needs to be changed. Many of the other parts on the car (eg. the brake calipers) are meant to last for many years or for the lifetime of the car, and that's what is of primary importance to evaluate.

Lastly, the question is a bit weird. It's kind of like asking if I like General Motors. I guess it's an okay car company in general but I wouldn't use a C6 Z06 to drive my grandmother to a ballet in the wintertime. I also wouldn't be caught dead in a Cobalt. *shrug*

[[SupraLEGEND]]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Not really. Again, compare it to this clutch:
http://www.titanmotorsports.com/tiltripcarcl.html
No - again, the sprung-hub design is a weakness...and that design feature is for comfort and reliability NOT "very high horsepower".
Didn't you read the information at the link you yourself posted? Gikken doesn't make a single disk clutch for the Mkiv Supra Turbo. Why ask this question? Please note that all clutches have a single pressure plate. It's only the number of clutch disks and floater plates that vary.
Of course it does, but most of the reason for that is that it is only offered for the Mkiv in multiple disk versions.
I'm not aware of anything wrong with that brand, I suppose. However, talking about the specific compound of pad installed on the Supra you're considering is more relevant. A compound that's great on the track can not only be 'bad' on the street...it can be dangerous. For example, Endless' S580 pad material wouldn't just be a bit dangerous - most likely you'd wreck your car with it. It takes a lot of hard braking just to bring that pad up to the temperature where it grabs. Before that, it feels like the pad is a solid stone and has almost no grip at all on the rotors.

To be honest though, the overall relevance of pads to the car purchase is a secondary consideration at most. Brake pads are consumeables, just like gasoline, oil, and transmission fluid. Is the exact type a consideration - sure...but only for the period of time until it needs to be changed. Many of the other parts on the car (eg. the brake calipers) are meant to last for many years or for the lifetime of the car, and that's what is of primary importance to evaluate.

Lastly, the question is a bit weird. It's kind of like asking if I like General Motors. I guess it's an okay car company in general but I wouldn't use a C6 Z06 to drive my grandmother to a ballet in the wintertime. I also wouldn't be caught dead in a Cobalt under any circumstances. *shrug*

And the difference is...?

But that clutch can handle 800HP...if that's not a very high figure to you, I don't know what is...

Yes Giken doesn't, sorry, my bad If the Giken is better than the OEM clutch then, that's all the better for me...

So tell me, why does the Tilton clutch description speak of "multi-plate" clutch?

Yes, agreed - the pad compound is second consideration - hence I haven't stressed about it. When I get the car, I'll look at the pads with an "if the shoe fits, wear it..." approach. If I'm not happy with them for my application, I'll buy a new set...

What did/do you think of the OEM pads through your personal experience?

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

And the difference is...?

For starters, the price (and yes, that Tilton all-carbon clutch is very much worth the price, imho.

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...But that clutch can handle 800HP...if that's not a very high figure to you, I don't know what is...

800hp=680rwhp. No, 680rwhp is NOT a "very high" figure for the Mkiv Supra Turbo. 680rwhp is achievable with the oem fuel system, methanol injection, and a small-to-mid-sized single turbo ... which is a rather modest configuration quite honestly. Truly impressive Mkiv Supra dynos are well over 1,500rwhp (which is >1,750hp) these days.

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...So tell me, why does the Tilton clutch description speak of "multi-plate" clutch?...

Why wouldn't it? It is a multi-plate clutch, so that description is completely accurate.

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...What did/do you think of the OEM pads through your personal experience?

Good (but not great) braking power, low noise, moderate rotor wear, relatively high amount of brake dust.

[[SupraLEGEND]]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Please note that all clutches have a single pressure plate. It's only the number of clutch disks and floater plates that vary.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Why wouldn't it? It is a multi-plate clutch, so that description is completely accurate.

So, you're saying that a multi-plate clutch is one that has just a single pressure plate but, one with multiple floater plates?? If so, what is/are a floater plate/s?

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

So, you're saying that a multi-plate clutch is one that has just a single pressure plate but, one with multiple floater plates?? If so, what is/are a floater plate/s?

Well first of all, I'm not just saying it. I've installed dozens of multi-disk clutches in dozens of supras (many more single disk clutches too, of course).

Secondly, there's no such thing as a clutch with more than one pressure plate - at least not for the 2jz-gte and V160.

The floater plates do just that - they float ... in between the multiple clutch disks, of course.

[[SupraLEGEND]]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Well first of all, I'm not just saying it. I've installed dozens of multi-disk clutches in dozens of supras (many more single disk clutches too, of course).

Secondly, there's no such thing as a clutch with more than one pressure plate - at least not for the 2jz-gte and V160.

The floater plates float in between the multiple clutch disks, of course.

Right, to put it simply - a clutch disk is known as a clutch plate and those are referred to as single, twin or triple depending on the number but, there is only one pressure plate present. Right or wrong?

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

Right, to put it simply - a clutch disk is known as a clutch plate and those are referred to as single, twin or triple depending on the number but, there is only one pressure plate present. Right or wrong?

Twin, triple, or quadruple clutches have multiple clutch disks/plates and multiple floater plates. Clutch disks/plates always have friction material on them, but the pressure plate, floater plates and flywheel surface usually do not (except in the case of 'triple-carbon' clutches).

Here's an example of a quadruple disk, 'triple-carbon' carbon clutch:
http://www.titanmotorsports.com/tiqudifor93s.html
It is literally the most expensive clutch for the Mkiv Supra Turbo (w/2jz-gte and V160). It has four clutch disks, three floater plates, and sixteen surfaces with carbon-fiber friction material.

Here's another top-of-the-line clutch for the Mkiv Supra Turbo. It's RPS' triple carbon:
http://www.turboclutch.com/Pages/RPS%20BC3M%20LSX.htm
In this illustration, you can more clearly see all of the clutch disks and floater plates.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...the pad compound is second consideration - hence I haven't stressed about it...

Ok then. Please stop talking about "racing pads" since you agree that factor is secondary at most.