Pardon my ignorance: why is the 7M-GE so much less efficient?

cars4me89 · 05-31-2007, 05:46 AM

cre is correct, its very difficult to make definate comparions about vehicles, engines, drivetrains, simply by numbers due to the fact that there are millions of things that you can adjust on cars these days.. the only way to really compare them is by driving.. you cannot compare simply by power the power they make.

comparing a 1987 supra to another car of its day of equal price range is very difficult because as much as we wish our cars were built as high-performance race cars.. they weren't. the mk3's were built as luxury cross-country GT (grand touring) cars. think about it, they came with power seats (who knows how many directions they're adjustable), power windows, automatic a/c, headlamp washers, adjustable suspension, adjustable steering wheel, and the car weighs in at over 3500 pounds. this is in no way being able to be compared to a high-performance vehicle such as a porsche.. truth be told is that the supra cannot be accuratly compared to any other car from its day. It is a very unique vehicle.. don't try and compare your numbers to anyone else because supra's are so tuneable and make so much power with few mods (assuming its turbo) that it's unheard of.. now idk about 250 horse with few mods on an N/A.. i just don't believe that but who knows.

I don't try to compare my Supra to anything else because it is very difficult to do so for all the reasons listed above.

finaltable · 05-31-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Even if you were comparing one Toyota to another there are a lot of things not being taken into account here. Compression, volumetric efficiency, internal resistance and friction, interia and the weight of the stock internals, the RPM at which the power is made, the tradeoff between torque and HP, bore, stroke, valve timing, factory tuning, and so on.

I like this response better than being told I am just clueless. I started out by saying I don't know the answer to this, silly me for thinking that a forum frequented by people knowledgable about this car/engine (and engines in general) might be able to help me understand what makes this engine of 20 years ago different from the engines being made today. I thought comparing the BMW engine to the 7M was actually a good comparison since it makes sense that 20 years later the 3.0L straight 6 (a good design to start with) could be improved by about 10-12% in HP given a similar performance target.

supramacist · 05-31-2007, 01:21 PM

I'm sorry dude...., but you did kind of come off as knocking on supras a bit.

And that may not bother anyone else. But personally, I was a bit offended.
Because you have or had no idea as to how much time and money alot of us put into these cars to keep them on the road.

You have to passionate about supras if you are to own one or it will never work out for you. These cars have a tendency to push back when they get tired of you pushing on them.

It read like you hadn't even driven one.

And you have to admit that comparing an 07 anything to any supra just isn't a logistical process.

Concider the 07 nissan z car to the 90 model z car. You just can't compare engines specs from that day and age to this one.

I'm tired of feeling like someones always banging on my ride.

Alot of these guys have a bit more tact than me. I shoot from the hip.
Tact goes out the window completely when you compare a supra to a honda.

finaltable · 05-31-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

It read like you hadn't even driven one.

You aren't far off. I had never actually driven one before I got this one 3 days ago. So far I have 302 miles behind the wheel but it's the best 302 miles I've ever driven. Don't worry about my passion. From a big picture standpoint there is not another car in existence I would rather drive than this, except a Mk IV, and maybe not even then because I don't know what kind of back seat room a Mk IV has. Yes, there are better cars but every one of them introduces some very undesirable factors. From a cost-performance-reliability standpoint nothing touches the Supra.

I asked the question wrong but I wasn't knocking the Supra; I was trying to learn what makes today's engines better so I could approach my Mk III with those factors in mind with an eye toward improving it.

supramacist · 05-31-2007, 06:59 PM

Alright man. My Bad.

I feel alot better about that now that I know where you are coming from.

Alluminum. That's the biggest visible difference in engines of 07 to even just as late as the 90's. Everything on the new LS2 is alluminum. Everything on the z is the same. Hell the titan and tundra engines are all alluminum based engines.

It's much lighter than the steel that was used from circa 1980.

05-31-2007, 05:46 AM	#1
cars4me89 3" Exhaust Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 115	cre is correct, its very difficult to make definate comparions about vehicles, engines, drivetrains, simply by numbers due to the fact that there are millions of things that you can adjust on cars these days.. the only way to really compare them is by driving.. you cannot compare simply by power the power they make. comparing a 1987 supra to another car of its day of equal price range is very difficult because as much as we wish our cars were built as high-performance race cars.. they weren't. the mk3's were built as luxury cross-country GT (grand touring) cars. think about it, they came with power seats (who knows how many directions they're adjustable), power windows, automatic a/c, headlamp washers, adjustable suspension, adjustable steering wheel, and the car weighs in at over 3500 pounds. this is in no way being able to be compared to a high-performance vehicle such as a porsche.. truth be told is that the supra cannot be accuratly compared to any other car from its day. It is a very unique vehicle.. don't try and compare your numbers to anyone else because supra's are so tuneable and make so much power with few mods (assuming its turbo) that it's unheard of.. now idk about 250 horse with few mods on an N/A.. i just don't believe that but who knows. I don't try to compare my Supra to anything else because it is very difficult to do so for all the reasons listed above. __________________ 1987 Toyota Supra 7M-GE Natrually Aspirated Automatic http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2385905 Currently enrolled in UTI (Universal Technical Institute.. ya ya say what you want bout the school lol its got some nice benefits though), have about two years of auto experience so far.. only 18 years old. My supra's older than me :P -Phil

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05-31-2007, 01:21 PM	#3
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	I'm sorry dude...., but you did kind of come off as knocking on supras a bit. And that may not bother anyone else. But personally, I was a bit offended. Because you have or had no idea as to how much time and money alot of us put into these cars to keep them on the road. You have to passionate about supras if you are to own one or it will never work out for you. These cars have a tendency to push back when they get tired of you pushing on them. It read like you hadn't even driven one. And you have to admit that comparing an 07 anything to any supra just isn't a logistical process. Concider the 07 nissan z car to the 90 model z car. You just can't compare engines specs from that day and age to this one. I'm tired of feeling like someones always banging on my ride. Alot of these guys have a bit more tact than me. I shoot from the hip. Tact goes out the window completely when you compare a supra to a honda.

05-31-2007, 06:59 PM	#5
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	Alright man. My Bad. I feel alot better about that now that I know where you are coming from. Alluminum. That's the biggest visible difference in engines of 07 to even just as late as the 90's. Everything on the new LS2 is alluminum. Everything on the z is the same. Hell the titan and tundra engines are all alluminum based engines. It's much lighter than the steel that was used from circa 1980.