NEEd HELp
 

so i just got done doing a headgasket on my 91 7mgte. i have everything on (i believe). when i turn the key on my fuel pump will no longer turn on to prime the fuel rail...but when i try to crank the motor it will pump fuel to the fuel rail. Also when i try to crank the motor i just get a weird whining noise...its a dull noise..and i cannot figure out where its coming from. i have spent a couple hours reading on here but cant get any good ideas...everyone with a starting problem can at least get it to crank over some. thanks for any help.

I don't believe the fuel pump normally runs in the key on position with the engine off. Only while cranking or while the engine is running and key is in the on position, (if it is still in stock configuration).
Does the engine turn at all while cranking? The whining noise happens all the time or only while trying to start the engine? Try to isolate the noise better if possible.
Perhaps the easiest thing to check would be your actual battery voltage. Also check battery voltage while attempting to crank the engine.

It ended up being the battery not having enough juice. But now it will crank and fire but not run. Can u help me with this?

sounds like the circuit opening relay for the fuel pump.

when you turn the key to the on position, the fuel pump runs for a few seconds to prime the lines and fuel rail, then stops. that supplies enough fuel to get the engine to fire and once the VAFM starts seeing a signal that air is coming in, the fuel pump receives power again and begins pumping until that signal ceases.

check that and see if its hooked up. if so and operating properly, then id look at your VAFM/KVAFM

Could u point me in any direction of where that circuit is located?
And could the KVAFM be why it will crank but not start up???
Patience is a virtue but man this starting to suck

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Librar...px?S=Main&P=22

the KVAFM is a possibility, but ive heard of ppl start and run their cars without this even hooked up.

id say its the COR, or the fuel pump relay. u should be able to find both in the TSRM link above.

ok. ill have to check that. thanks a lot. i have another question...the clips that go to the fuel injectors are white/grey and orange. does anybody know the order they should go from front to back?? i have a feeling these might be wrong but the clips can pretty much only reach a certain injector.

What do you mean "fire but not run"? Have you verified fuel pressure? It WILL start with the kvafm unplugged, might not rev much though. Figure out what is missing, spark? fuel? timing? Something is missing. Double check all vacuum lines and grounds too.

if u unclip anything on the harness u should always tag both ends so you know where they went.

if they can only reach one injector (usually this is how the harnesses work on these motors, not guaranteed) then i would assume thats how they attach.

ive never seen different color injector clips on these motors, ive only seen green and yellow.

Do I need to pull the dash to get to the circuit opening relay??

it should be under the kick panel, down by your feet. i wouldnt think youd have to pull the dash to get to it.

A few of the injector wires (#1 and #2 for example will reach either injector. The injector clips (the wire harness side connectors) typically alternate white / brown / white / brown and so on. The first is white, IIRC, double check in the TEWD by looking at the wire colors running to the two clips.

The injector CAPS are what you're thinking of... pre89 N/A yellow top (low impedance injectors); 89+ N/A green top (high impedance; all years 7M-GTE black (low impedance).


90% of the time the problem with a rebuild not starting is timing related; 7% it's a missed ground; the last 3% varies.

I'm pretty sure I have all the grounds. The one on the exhaust side towards the back of the head, the coil pack ground, and the huge one under the intake.
And the timing issue, I put the crank tdc and marked my cams and cps and put them back in the same.

If you are absolutely sure that the timing is correct (I would double check it, especially the cps, which is easy to kcuf up if you have never done it before) and the everything is grounded sufficiently, move on.
Next I would check the fuel pressure (using a gauge!) before checking any of the related wiring or relays or whatever. The car will NOT start if the pressure is below what is required even if you can hear the pump running. If the pressure at the rail is good, this is not the problem, move on. Do you have good (or any) spark...........

true, just went and looked at my buddies. never noticed the clip colors were different colors. i think im going color blind haha, they looked the same color as the injectors when i took both my motors apart :eek3:

Replacement clips were only available in white, if I recall correctly.

so i worked on it a little more tonight. it will crank just fine, getting fuel because you can start to smell it (kinda like partially burnt) coming from the exhaust. checked the timing again and set it just to be positive. when cranking it it will spit and sputter a tad bit every now and again. did some more checking and it could possibly be spark problem. put a spark tester on it and while cranking it only received one or two weak sparks on plug #1. but when you look at the plugs you can see a little black on them where they have been firing. so what would be a good start for the findings of the problem??
and also i just put new NGK Iridium plugs in it and a buddy of mine told me the car might not run with these plugs.....could this be true? i didnt think it could be since the parts store found them under my car in the computer and ordered them that way.
and also..crank sensor?? is there one? and where? couldnt this be a problem to not starting

sounds like your coil is bad. it could be the plugs, there are certain double platinum plugs that wont work with newer toyota motors (my dads 98 2.7 taco wont run double platinums) as well as a few other motor/plug combos that dont work. so thats might be the problem.

the best plugs for these cars are the stock NGK's as far as ive read, or coppers. they dont last as long, but they provide the best spark for the buck and with regular maintenance youd never have a problem.

check your coil/pack tho and see if its delivering proper voltage and do a resistance test.

weak spark is a huge problem that gets mis-diagnosed alot.

There's nothing wrong with Iridiums but there's no significant benefit to them over the stock platinums.

No crank sensor, it is in the cps. I like autolite copper spark plugs cuz I'm cheap and don't mind changing them often.
If the coil(s) are too weak to even start the engine, you will likely have gasoline on the spark plugs. Easy enough to check. It doesn't right away mean the coil(s) are bad. The 7MGTE coils are case grounded to the bracket that holds them to the engine. Be sure there is no corrosion or paint between the coils and the bracket. Then be sure the ground wire from the bracket to the head is in good condition. It seems coincidental that 3 coil packs crap out at the same time. Check the harness to them as well. If wiring and grounds are good, start testing the coils.

First, I would try to spray some starting fluid (not too much) into the intake (NOT THE AFM) and try to start it. If it starts right up you have fuel system issues. It's not classy, but it knocks out a bunch of diagnostics quickly. Be careful if you try this, ether is nasty stuff.

I carefully sprayed ether already. it just spits and sputters like it does when you dont put ether in it.
the reason i bought iridium is because it seemed they were the best ones to buy (guess i didnt research enough) and because it was the only plugs the store could get me within 3 days.

so the Irdidiums should be fine (according to cre, and i trust his word). but the stock ones are just NGK copper?? or NGK platinum??

If they were ordered for your car, the plugs shouldn't be a problem, but if you are skeptical of your plugs, the autolite coppers only cost about $12 for 6 and they definitely work. You can always put the ngk's back in once it is running.
If you have spark, adequate fuel pressure and your timing is close enough, the engine should start. It's not that complicated. Compression is the only component left to check.
Spit and sputter? Does it show any signs of ignition, such as popping or backfiring? Have you checked for spark from the other coils? Are the spark plugs wet or dry after cranking for a few seconds?

It pops and sometimes backfires xthe plugs are dry and smell like fuel. How would I check the open circuit relay to see if it's bad?

There are signs of life. phew. If you are backfiring, you HAVE spark and fuel. This is combustion happening at the wrong time. You probably have the timing 180 degrees off if your marks are lined up correctly. When you set the crank pulley, did you check to see that the #1 piston was on the compression stroke? There are 2 upward strokes only 1 makes compression. Or did you line up the marks and put everything together? If so you may have found your problem. At least I hope so, it's been 3 pages already this car should be out laying rubber!

Back firing when spraying in starter fluid is not unheard of even if the timing is correct.... and given the delicate nature of many of the intake controls in use in modern cars manufacturers of the cars and starter fluids both usually recommend against the use of it on EFI vehicles.


As for all the speculation about the KVAFM.... YES, you can run the GTE without one even connected... the car should drive decently all around but I'd highly recommend against trying to push it very hard. However a bad KVAFM can indeed keep the engine from running altogether... funny huh?

And on a related note; The 7M-GE cannot be run without the VAFM (vane air flow meter) connected.

El Supracabas- i marked everything and put the crank at TDC and marked the CPS and then put everything back together the same way.
And yes its getting to be frustrating....it needs to be on the road so i can cruise around with the targa off on these nice sunny days!!
I finally got to the open circuit relay...but how do i test it to see if it is good?? because my fuel pump still doesnt prime the fuel rail before i attempt cranking the motor.

Ok, just checking. Would have been nice if that's all it was, it's very common. I am in agreement with cre regarding the use of ether on EFI engines, however I'm running out of ideas for you.
If you think it's not priming, jumper the fuel pump from the diagnostic box. Then try to start it. Have you checked the voltage at the pump while someone cranks the engine? The procedures to check the COR should be in the tsrm.
Here's an interesting read that will hopefully help you understand what you are looking for.


http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/sho...-fuel-pumps%29

Well it started up yesterday. ran today. but now it decided to do what it did when i bought it. after driving so long and it gets to temp. the antifreeze empties out thru the overflow bottle. SO PISSED!!:mad:
I dont even know what to do now....
But on the other hand, Cre and El Supracabras have been extremely helpful...Thanks Guys. :)

Glad to help.
For the benefit of any readers who may stumble upon your unfortunate situation, would you mind posting what it was exactly that eventually got the car to start? I sure would like to know.
Take a little vacation from the car and go back when you're fresh to deal with the coolant issue. Old cars (mk3 supras!) can be frustrating. My supra has taken a healthy chunk of both my patience and money but I love having a car that people will look at for a couple minutes and still ask me "what kind of car is that?". Unfortunately it is usually followed by "you're leaking coolant".

LOL, so true....

The problem was that my CPS wires broke out of the clip so I had to wire them up around the clip and I had two of them wrong....dumb me.
Well today I bypassed my heater core...and it still emptied out the coolant through the overflow bottle....sux.
The only thing i can think of would be is that my block is cracked...it doesnt happen until the motor warms up. Is there a possibility that it could be my radiator??
I do need to take a break from it and then return later..but I want to enjoy it so bad. If the urge is to bad i take it down the street real quick and back before it can heat up and spit the coolant out.:crazy2:

could be a faulty rad cap, if its old or the seal on it is messed up it wont maintain pressure.

its a new cap as well as thermostat.
Someone before me put that liquid glass stuff in it. U can see it in the radiator fins. So i am thinking that might be clogging the radiator and not letting the coolant circulate...causing it to become hot and take easiest way out.

yea ive heard about that glass stuff. sounds like crap too me.

you could try a flush, but im betting that wont do it unfortunately. theres also the option to boil the rad out, but im still not positive that would do it. you can call performance radiator and im sure you could get one for ur app for about 150.

they are great radiators, ive used them alot and they have great construction and are far superior to an oem replacement.

Test that cap again, new doesn't mean good. Make sure it can hold the correct pressure. If you think you have radiator blockage, you might find it using an I/R thermometer. Is the radiator in good shape (fins, tubes damaged or rotted)? Is everything else in good condition? (water pump, ALL hoses, fan/clutch/shroud, correct t-stat). Test the coolant for hydrocarbon traces if you think the block or HG is at fault.