Keeping my cool...

[Krem]

I just can't do it... well, that's what my car tells me anyways..

Cre: you're pretty familiar w/ this already, and if it seems I'm disregarding any advice, please disregard... however, I've tapped out my funds trying to repair and still at ends...

138k miles, no leaks evident and coolant levels have been roughly the same in the resevoir for the couple of months I've had her. The level within the radiator has been right up to the cap everytime I've checked (checked when car was cold).

Issues: Smelt HOT/burning coolant smell and engine heats up fast and stays hot after shut off.

Addressed: This weekend I put in a new thermostat and gasket, as well as upper and lower radiator hoses.. concluded w/ a flush and new mix.. no leaks were evident during process and fluid is retained with no problems.

I was told due to the engine temp I brought the car in was soo high they doubt the work I had done on the cooling system would help. Sure enough, they were right.. I don't smell the burning coolant smell as bad any more but I'm just assuming that's from having clean (non-burnt) coolant for this time being. However, my engine seems like it's heating up faster and more than it did before the flush. So naturally, I'm fearfull it could be a water pump, radiator or the all famous BHG tho I have no signs of one appart from a hot running engine. Is there anything I might be over looking? Is there a way I can easily determine if it might be water pump or radiator over the other? $40 for a BHG test kit is acceptable.. if there was something simple I can do for diagnostic purposes, I'd appreciate the knowledge.. after doing what I thought needed to be done and still having the problem, I'm not keen to fork out hundreds on a radiator and hundreds more for a water pump (if only replacing one is all that's necessary).

Dunno if it matters or helps, but she blows cool air thru my interior vents when I don't have the climate control system on... if I try bumping the temp up into the 80's, it still just blows cool air.. so I'm guessing I have a heater hose issue, but could it really effect the cooling system? Could it be other issues such as exhaust or ignition timing? I'm starting to think it's not the water that's over heating, it's the engine itself... I'm just unsure if it's a result of not getting enough water or if something else is heating the engine up soo fast the water can't disperse enough of it?

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated... visual aides are greatly valuable in my understanding but not at all necessary.

[mirage83]

Not sure if this has been covered yet or not in attempting to deal with your heat issue, but if your fan shroud and/or engine splash-guard isn't in good shape it'll have a negative effect on engine cooling. Both help guide air where it'll do the most good in keeping your engine cool.

[Krem]

thank you for the answer... yea, it's true, I do need a fan shroud still... but I have a hard time swallowing that is my only issue. If the car seemed somewhat on the hot side after driving it 50 miles in less than an hour, ok... I can see the lack of shroud as my problem... but this is more like I drive 3-4 miles to get gf from work at 10 o'clock at night (roughly ~60 degrees F) and return home... by the time I get home, the engine is soo hot I expect it to be glowing some shade of red... and the engine bay will remain hot/warm for a good hour, if not more. Mind you, this is all after replacing the thermostat and gasket..

Since the shroud was removed to cool more of the engine than just the cooling system, I have to think this issue was evident before the shroud was removed. Which concerns me that maybe not enough water is going thru? The lower radiator hose is warm to the touch, but nothing like the upper hose.. I suppose it could be a radiator not cooling the water sufficiently enough, but would a shroud really turn "meh" cooling into super cooling? Cause I'd think it'd just bump it from "meh" to "okay"..

[mirage83]

Couple of things here... First, if someone removed the shroud to cool more of the engine then they didn't know what the heck they were doing. The cooling system was designed in such a way that the shroud guides airflow through the radiator rather than allowing it to be wasted going around it. Removing the shroud reduces the heat transfer ability of the radiator, resulting in more heat buildup within your engine.

Removing it was self-defeating in other words. It allows airflow that is supposed to go through the radiator and pull heat from the coolant to take a path of less resistance and go around the radiator which accomplishes little or nothing to cool your engine. A missing engine splash guard will do the same thing, keep your cooling system from operating as effectively as it was designed to.

Your upper radiator hose is supposed to be hotter than the lower one as it's the return line from the engine. The lower hose feeds the engine coolant that's already circulated through and been cooled by the radiator, the upper hose returns the heated coolant back to the radiator to go through the cooling cycle again.

You can test your water pump by disconnecting the upper radiator hose from the rad and with the thermostat out or at least open see if it water flows out forcefully.

Your radiator may need a good cleaning if it's an older one and/or is really gummed up with old coolant, rust, etc. Might want to take it out and (if it's a stock one) disassemble it and clean it up good. If it's not stock, take it to a shop to have them clean it if you have doubts about it.

So, with all this in mind, what does your temp gauge have to say on the subject? Is it indicating that you're overheating, or are you relying on how hot the engine bay feels to you? Needless to say the former is a far more important and accurate indicator of how hot your engine is really getting. If it's a good operable gauge, with a good sensor, then I'd go with what it says about your actual operating temps and not worry about how it "feels" to you.

[Krem]

I've never trusted the guage for the couple of months I've had the car. the coolant goes from sitting cold all night to half way between cold and hot in a little under two blocks and goes no higher. So I think the water is getting hotter, but the guage is stopping midrange for some reason. The burning coolant smell I get is what leads me to that conclusion. However, the temperature of the block and bay get really hot, really fast... and remain so even after sitting off for a long period of time (much longer period of time than was actually spent driving and building the heat).. combine the two and I'm fearfull the coolant is not getting through the block effectively...

tonight I did have my coolant light flickering on and off... and the coolant in the res. is below the low line... so I can always hope that had part to do in why I seemed to overheat faster after getting the system flushed..

[cre]

Originally Posted by Krem

I have a hard time swallowing that is my only issue.

Get a glass of water then... because it very well could be the only problem.

Mirage is correct in just about everything he's posted.

The fan cowl actually has the biggest effect on the cooling system at slow speeds or while the car is stopped (see: city driving). He's also correct in that a missing undercover can increase temps although this is only at driving speeds where more air can be forced through the rad than allowing it to blow out under it before it goes through; At a stop the undercover provides no benefit.

The lack of heat through the heater is most likely due to a bad VSV on the heater control switch. To test this bypass the VSV of the heater control valve which is on the firewall, on the passenger side and right below the engine harness... it's the valve with two heater hoses running to it. http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Librar...spx?F=8716&P=1 Just run the vacuum line which goes along the firewall to the VSV directly to the vacuum port on top of the bell shaped diaphragm. This is VERY common and has nothing to do with engine temps. Once you get this done turn on the heat while the engine is warm... if the windows steam up, you smell a lot more coolant or you see "smoke" come out of the vents you've got a leak in the heater core... even if there is a leak, unless it was pouring and you were always out of coolant it's not the problem.

What is your spark advance (timing) set to? The greater the advance the more heat there is for the cooling system to clean up.

Get the radiator flushed to ensure it's flowing sufficiently.

Take a medium sized towel and tie it below the pugre for the coolant reservoir. Make sure the coolant system is all full at the PROPER level (radiator full and reservoir full to the Max. level while the engine is "warm") and go for a drive. Check the towel after... if it's soaked you're purging and may have a bad radiator cap or you may have combution gasses venting into the coolant system (this would be the beginning of a BHG).

If you keep letting the car overheat you're gambling in a MAJOR way. The temp gauge reports on a bell curve. The lower section is very steep and reflects small changes with a lot of movement. The center section is fairly broad and remains there for a pretty large range... past the middle mark the gauge shows very little movement for big increases... What this means is that when you see it approach the top of the gauge your temps may be high enough to not only blow the HG but even warp the head.

As for how long it takes to warm up... takes my car about 2 or 2.5 miles. Without the shroud you could probably cut that in half.

[Krem]

well, my body doesn't like water like it should... usually makes me queezy when I drink it straight... so I'll make some koolaid... oh yea...

Thanks for the inputs from both of you and I will try to look at the heater hoses within this week before it starts getting too cold during the day. You guys gave me some hope in that it's not a water pump or radiator... since not only do I lack a fan shroud, I don't see anything underneath like you mention... so it sounds like I'm not cooling the coolant at low or idle speeds nor am I getting sufficient coolant when driving at 65mph.. so I got a new shopping list to include these two parts.

I did notice, last night, after I picked up my gf a half a block from my house (had her take bus so as not to over heat the car, but she had bulky groceries I needed to help her with) and before I could get home and park her, she was flashing the low coolant light... checked the res. and sure enough it was empty.. called my mechanic today and he claims there may have been air bubbles in the system still and that they typically are caused by a BHG :\... but I'm happier thinking they just didn't fill up the resevoir.. guess I'll know for sure which is the truth after I fill it up myself. Also, the flush was one of the things I had done as the old coolant looked murky and brown... thinking someone tried using that metallic radiator stop leak liquid... which only suggests to me there's a bigger problem I haven't found... but I can always hope that's not the case...

As for timing, I really have no clue on how that's working... all I know is the car seems to bog and remain sluggish till ~3,000 rpm then it gets a nice kick..

Again, thank you for the comments and advice.. I'll apply it when possible.. I just don't have the money for the shrouds atm.. so for now I'm back to carpooling to and from work in my buddies car. No way do I wanna risk further damage to the engine from heat.

[cre]

Try junk yards for the cowl. Depending on the yard you can sometimes get them dirt cheap, other times they'll cost about $50 (still half the price of a new one).

The water pump is still a possibility, so's a leaking rad cap (do the test I mentioned for this one and a free way of testing for air coming into the cooling system some other way... do a pressure test on the cap to be certain of the cap, most auto parts stores should have the tester you can use for free).

Ask your mechanic if they ever checked thew timing and if so ask what it was set for. It should be set for 10?BTDC.

The sluggishness and bump could be a few different things and I've covered those in your other thread(s).

Air can remain trapped in the heater core. If the core is being bypassed (in the case that I already mentioned) then it may take ages to get it all out. Get the heater core flowing again and the system should burp any remaining air in just one or two drives.

The brown murky color was probably actually rust.. it is a cast iron block... old, incompatible or improperly mixed coolant can cause this. I highly recommend you thoroughly fluch the system and use Toyota's red coolant.

Do this tonight: Take the oil cap off and look in the underside of it... is there any brownish sludge resembling chocolate pudding? If so, you're most likely looking at a BHG.

pH test strips like those sold here can be used to pretty accurately determine if your HG is venting compression gasses into the coolant system. See if you can find some locally.