mk4 performance
 

Okay I decided to go about this a different way... I live in Canada and imported a JDM mk4 Supra, twin turbo. I want to know where to start for upgrades, I got deep pockets as I've been working in the oilfield for the past 6 months. I know all about BPU and APU.

I'm thinking;
Full 4" exhaust for max power
Intake
Greddy BCC (Boost Cut Controller)
Boost Controller
Blow Off Valve
Hosing (Can't stand when stock hosing cracks and you get leaks and shit)
Turbo Timer
Intercooler
Cam Gears? (5 bolt)
Cam Shaft?


What about things like injectors? I am tempted to just wait and put in a whole twin fuel system for 2000 instead of just injectors?
I'm also aware about things called Plug n Play? They are ECU upgrades or fuel system upgrades that are already set to go? Is this a good idea or is it better to do a full installation instead of this instant stuff? As well as intake manifolds? What about other things like fuel regulators or different o2 sensors, I heard the stock ones aren't very accurate. I haven't looked around to compare brand yet but if I am spending this amount of money on the car I am going to put the best of the best stuff in it, maybe not a 2000$ air filter, but I'm not going to put in wal-mart brand stuff. If anyone can answer any of these questions let me know, as well as brand suggestions.

Thanks, Kyle

PS: I'll posting pictures of my baby as soon as it gets here :x:

I'd recommend we start with your power goals. That way we know you're not wasting $$$ on parts that are only necessary above your goal (eg. the 4" exahust, injectors, and/or aftermarket cams). It'll also keep you from buying parts that only fit with bpu, and then having to sell them later when you go APU - if your goal requires APU, best to just get organized to do that in the first place.

If you want the exhaust for show (even if it's not necessary for your power goal), I absolutely understand. No harm in looking & sounding bad@ss. :D

The oem fuel pressure regulator is very accurate. However it is not adjustable, and it doesn't flow enough for an aftermarket fuel system with multiple/larger fuel pumps. The oem O2 sensors are plenty accurate too, and work fine with the oem ecu. However, they aren't sufficient for "wideband" a:f tuning.

Plug and play is just a term for any product that has OEM Toyota electrical connectors on it. This saves you and/or your installer time doing wiring when installing aftermarket electronic components.

Btw, the only hose I know of that cracks is the hose between the EGR valve and the EGR vacuum modulator. You'll also need to replace the hoses around the BOV when you replace it. If you want to do all of the other hoses too, to have a great looking engine bay, I understand. Silicone hoses withstand heat the best.

Lastly, don't forget about a boost gauge, and a budget for race fuel. Oh, and an aftermarket downpipe will make you waaaay more power than an aftermarket exhaust at the BPU level.

Thanks for the help, I'm hoping for anywhere between 450-500whp this spring but eventually I want to make about 800whp.

As for exhaust, I meant like full turbo-back. So a new downpipe included.

If at all possible I need you to be more specific; just give me one number: 450, 500, or 800.

For example, 450rwhp is achievable via BPU++++, with a low mileage/hours engine (i..e GREAT compression and leakdown numbers) and a low mileage/hours set of turbos. However 500whp is NOT feasibly achievable via BPU++++, regardless of engine/turbos condition.

If you want 800 later, you will 100% for sure need to uninstall and resell some aftermarket BPU parts that you are buying now, at that time. If you're okay with doing this, let's just completely forget about 800 for now. However, if you're not okay with the inconvenience and cost of buying, installing, uninstalling and reselling BPU-specific parts, let's just get you to 800 right now. Just mho, fwiw.

Lastly, note that there's no need to "hope". We can absolutely 100% for sure achieve any one of these numbers. Any one of them is simply a matter of carefully invested $, time, and expertise.
True, but you'll get all you need for BPU with a $300 downpipe. Just so no one else reading this thread is misled, you really don't need to buy the two together.

okay well lets just set it up so 800-900whp is possible, the parts may be more expensive now but I'm not into the inconvenience.

Gosh. Again, if at all possible I need you to be more specific; just give me one number: 800, or 900. Each horsepower level is a significantly different configuration. Really!

After we get that nailed down, I'll need to know your application.

Oh, and is your Japanese-spec Mkiv Supra Turbo an auto or a 6spd?

By the way, have you read these two threads from the MKIV FAQ?

• http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/...ond-supra.html
• http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/mkiv-faq/9008-1000-rwhp.html

Lastly, it's not only that the parts are more expensive for 800+rwhp...you have to upgrade many more of them. Examples: For BPU, you don't need a new exhaust manifold, but for aftermarket turbos, you do need to replace the oem exhaust manifold with an aftermarket exhaust manifold/header. For BPU, you use the oem ecu. For 800+rwhp, you'll need to replace the oem ecu with an aftermarket ecu. Etc., etc., etc...

I decided I'll just go with 500 approx rwhp, give or take fifteen but 500 would be nice... Then if I want to go bigger later I can. Is this possible with bpu++++? And still reliable.

Nevermind you clearly said 450 was possible with good compression bit not 500. If I was to go with 500 still would it involve turbo upgrade?

For 500rwhp you'll need a small single turbo kit. If you want to go bigger later on, you'll need a new turbo (you'll have to remove and resell the smaller 500rwhp one), and a fuel kit.

If you want to go with the goal of 450rwhp+ and bpu++++, that is only achievable with a just-like-brand-new engine, just-like-brand-new turbos, and a 6spd. Are you willing to swap out these oem parts, depending on their mileage/hours/condition? If not, 425rwhp (with a 6spd) is probably the max you can shoot for - and even that level depends heavily on those same components already being in very good condition (but brand-new condition isn't necessary for 425rwhp). If your compression numbers are low, or your oem turbos have a lot of miles/hours on them (or they've been driven very hard), and you've got an auto transmission, 375rwhp or so may be the best your setup can achieve. Again, it's all a matter of $, time and experitise.

Again, are you 6spd or auto?

Again, what is your application?

6 speed manual trans, I don't think I would want a single turbo would it be possible to stay twin and reach 500whp? I just driving the car as a summer car and take it to the strip sometimes to race other people, it's like a Friday night thing at a local drag strip.

if I was to go with the 425-450 rwhp how much would it cost for the new turbo's, etc. that I would need to be brand new again?

okay I made my decision, i'm gonna go bpu++++, we will get whatever whp out of it we can without turbo upgrade, if i want i can do that and change everything later but as a daily driver 400whp approx, should do.. thanks for the help and if you could let me know what I'd need, that would be much appreciated, thanks.

Yes, it'd be possible, but it's not practical. You'd spend about twice as much (or more) as you would simply going single turbo to get that 500rwhp.
Last I recall, brand-new turbos from Toyota are about $2250 EACH, and a new shortblock is about $3,250 or so...
You'll need all the standard bpu stuff, plus an fmic, an aftermarket bov (recirc), adjustable cam gears, and a fuel controller. You'll need a spring on your wastegate, and you'll need to run about 25% race fuel to bump up the octane.

I've never bpu'd a Japanese-spec Mkiv myself. I believe you'll also need a speed limiter defensor. We may also need to find a way to get your downpipe connection made larger so you can run a full 3" US-spec downpipe.

So would it be cheaper to just go bpu++++ and make what I can, like 400whp or 425 or whatever I'll get or single turbo and make 500whp?

Correct. However, with a single turbo you get to choose 500whp, 650whp, 800whp, etc... In other words, most folks who go single turbo aren't content with only 500whp.

How much more expensive would a single turbo upgrade be? And if I chose to go bpu++++ this year how much money would I waste going single next year?

A single turbo kit is at least $4K (average is closer to $5500 or so). You can spend much more than that, depending on exactly what turbo you want to go with the kit. Just to give you a reference, the turbo itself can range from $1000 for a small, older-style turbo ... up to to $5,000 for just the turbo if you want the latest-and-greatest cutting edge technology big turbo. If you want it all chromed and ceramic coated, you'll spend even more.
It depends. Are we talking a 500rwhp single turbo kit or an 800rwhp turbo kit?

How much would a 600rwhp kit compared to a 800whp kit vary? And how much more expensive are they than bpu++++?

The kits wouldn't differ that much in price, depending on the technology level you chose Note: newer technology kits spool up quicker at the same horsepower level.

The big things that would change are the additional components that would have to be upgraded to get you to 800whp...or the change in price for the items you did upgrade. The clutch and intercooler, for example, both are much more expensive at the 800rwhp+ level. At the 800rwhp+ level you need much wider rims, and a standalone ecu setup (eg. AEM). Tuning, and the proportion of race fuel you need to run becomes more expensive too.

Could you estime the price of bpu++++, 650whp set up and 800whp setup?

Do you care how it looks? Chroming, coatings, etc., etc. can add up to a lot. Are you going to be doing the labor yourself for the installs, or will you be paying someone?

Parts only: BPU+++ would be at least $3k. 650rwhp (6spd) would be about $12K-$15K (you'll need a fuel system and wider rims), and 800whp would be about $20K-$25K. The labor for these installs, dyno-tuning, etc. would be significant, since you should only use someone with extensive, verifiable 2jz-gte and extensive, verifiable 800+rwhp experience. Typically, a shop with that kind of expertise isn't cheap. Oh, and don't forget to maintain an ongoing budget for race fuel.

Again, have you read these two threads from the MKIV FAQ?

• http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/...ond-supra.html
• http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/mkiv-faq/9008-1000-rwhp.html

yes, I have read those two threads.

I would be doing the labor myself, so that it not a problem, the tuning I would still need to pay for, however. I may just go BPU++++ this year, and then next year beef it up to 650, and resell the parts that I would need to change. Would this be a major inconveniece? Like what parts would I have to sell, I mean.. I could get the intercooler/cams etc right now and prepare for next year with just the stock twins still, then next year just get the turbo kit?


No I don't care how it looks, If I did I could polish it etc myself, I have the equipment available for chroming as well.

Downpipe, bov mount/hoses, intercooler piping (turbo side), boost controller hoses, etc. Not a horribly big deal or anything - just letting you know everything you're getting yourself into. :) Be sure to get an intercooler and BOV big enough to handle 650rwhp so you don't have to change these out too.

So basically I can go bpu++++ to 650whp eithout changing all that much as long as I buy the parts to handle the power? So what would you suggest I get this year (I want everything except the turbo kit) so what would I need so that next year I can just buy a turbo kit and install? Besides the clutch cause I'll do that next year too.

Yep, other than the parts I mentioned above (downpipe, intercooler piping, etc.).
Go BPU++++, plus either a fuel kit or a very large alcohol injection kit. For the intercooler, do a GReddy 3-row. For the BOV, go with an HKS TypeII Racing.

At the BPU++++ level, you'll very likely burn out your oem clutch before you put the single turbo kit on. It starts slipping in 6th gear under boost on the highway first...then 5th, then 4th, etc.

I'll replace the clutch when needed so it should be about 4k for parts? (excluding clutch). Thanks for the help man.

Yes, that's a good estimate without the rims.

Oem-width rims & rubber won't even hold 425rwhp (and definitely not 650rwhp!). Your rear rims need to be at least 11.5" in width (315 or 305 width z, y, or r rated rubber, and not low-profile). 11.5" is 2" wider than oem rims. It's easy to spend over $2K on just the rims, and some folks spend $6K or more if you also go for a large diameter rim too.

Don't forget to budget for the race fuel (unless you go for the alchohol injection kit). More than about 16psi on 93 octane {(r+m)/2} will gradually damage your engine (it won't grenade instantly, it'll just degrade the compression/leakdown numbers over time). To make 425rwhp, you'll need to hit about 20psi of boost...and to hit that safely, your gas tank should contain about 25% of 100 motor octane (or better) race fuel.

Oh, I forgot to mention the GReddy 3-row intercooler is available with both "oem twins" piping and "single turbo" piping. Ideally, you should buy it with both sets of piping so you don't have to worry about that when you get your single turbo kit. :)

Okay sweet dude thanks so much for your help, what size of rear rims will I need for 650rwhp, ill just get those off the start.

11.5" width on the rear rims is the main thing (with the correct offset and bolt pattern, of course). The diameter isn't that important ... any thing from 17" diameter through 20" diameter works fine - just be sure you can get the rubber to match. Don't forget - no low profile rubber on the rear - you need some flex to the rear sidewall to ensure traction. Check out tirerack.com ahead of time for available sizes. On the front, a 9.5" wide rim matches the 11.5" rear rim just fine. If you want to install a bigger front brake kit someday (roadracing application), you probably need at least an 18" diameter.

I'm glad to help! Welcome to the Mkiv Supra Turbo 'brotherhood'! :bigthumb:

Nice man thanks you're a huge help.

You're welcome! :)

...forgot to mention you may not want to run an ultra-low-profile tire on the front either. Larger diameter rims bend when confronted with potholes, so an oem-height sidewall on the front may be desireable (depending on the street condition where you plan to drive your Supra). A really low profile tire on the front (of a rwd vehicle) is primarily used for roadracing/autocross, to make handling more precise. You can to decide whether you want precise handling or pothole protection.

Ah, okay.. So 17'' is probably good all around?

Yes, from a pure performance perspective, unless you want to upgrade the brakes.
Note that the oem rims are 17". When considering aftermarket rims, there's a good thing and a bad thing about the 17" oem rim size:

• The bad thing: Normally, guys that spend $$$ on a set of rims will want the rims to look more cool than oem. In 1993, a 17" rim was considered relatively large, but by today's standards it's really not. Most guys that buy aftermarket rims for the Mkiv Supra Turbo get at least 18" rims all around...and 19s are quite common. Beside a 19" rim, a 17" doesn't look nearly as 'bad@ss'. As much as I'd prefer for this analysis to be 100% about performance, the reality is that looks matter too. The rims are one of the most visible features of the car, and they're the easiest opportunity to upgrade its looks without doing any bodywork or repainting.
• The good thing: If you're looking to do this on a budget, or you want a 'sleeper' look, then get an extra set of oem rims, and run the back rim on the front (you may have to shave the lip of the caliper to do this - very easy - the caliper lip is not functional, it's only there to prevent someone from accidentally putting the rear rim on the front).
  There are companies that widen rims - so send a pair of oem rear rims to one of these companies and it comes back at 11.5" that you run with a 1" spacer. This is what I did for my Supra...before I got my brake upgrade:
  http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/parts/oem_mkiv_rim_widened/index.html
  ..it's actually my Supra in that article.

Hmm so 17" best performance wise, yes I understand big rims may look better too. Is it relatively cheap to get the stock oem rims widened? How wide are the stock front tires?

I guess you could say that 17" rear rims are the "best", performance wise, IF you mean for traction and acceleration...without downgrading the rear brakes. However, you may not need the "best" rim+tire performance if you're only looking at 650rwhp max. An 18" rear rim with good 315-width or 305-width rubber, and a 35 profile, will handle 650rwhp just fine.

If you're very serious about drag racing, then you'll have to get an even smaller diameter rear rim so you can fit drag slicks - you have to downgrade your rear brakes from TT to N/A oem rear calipers, so the 16" rims will fit on the rear. Drag slicks aren't available in a 17" diameter.

However, up front is a different story. 18s and 19s can perform very well for cornering. However, they're not optimal for when you contact potholes. If you hit a pothole on the front with a 19" rim and low profile rubber, it'll bend for sure. A 17" oem front rim with oem-height rubber will withstand most common-sized potholes (if there is such a thing as a common-sized pothole :P). On the other hand, if you do choose 16" drag slicks for the rear, you'll need to run drag 'skinnies' up front.

Okay, how much does widening the stock rims cost?

The export version of the 2JZ-GTE achieved its higher power output with the use of newer stainless steel turbochargers (ceramic for Japanese models), revised camshafts, and larger injectors (550 cc/min for export, 440 cc/min for Japanese)

remember this, the jspec 2jz has a lower stock hp rating than the usdm 2jz. so your starting off with a lower power motor, so you need more upgrades to boost your power levels up. as the jspec 2jz uses ceramic turbos, ditch the twins for a large single and put bigger injectors in.

A lot less than a new set of rims! :) ...seriously though, it's been many years since I've had mine widened, so I wouldn't have any confidence at all in any price I'd quote to you. I'd guess less than a thousand dollars (US), but I'm not sure at all.

The oem front rims are 8 inches wide. They'd probably fit rubber from 215mm through 245mm wide.

To me, a single probably isn't necessary, unless you know your short-term power goal exceeds 400rwhp. Swapping out the intake-side cam is pretty easy. Instead of swapping the injectors (and installing a resistor pack), just put in an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and run a higher base fuel pressure - this should allow the oem japanese-spec 440cc injectors to work just fine for bpu++++. That way you don't need an aftermarket fuel system till you go single.

Okay cool, I'll definately be back here for some more help once I actually have my car haha :) thanks so much for the help.