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JPDsupra 07-11-2007 12:57 AM

1000 rwhp
 
What is the best way to get to 1000rwhp "safely" without the car blowin up in my face( by the way I have a 1994 mkiv supra tt) I have seen some turbo kits/engine kits for the supra but what would be a better and safer method a parallel twin turbo or a single turbo and which would be quicker spooling and I am planning on a alchohol/meth injection because this will be a daily driver too. I already have wider fenders to accomodate bigger and wider tires for traction and what other modifications should I make like body, transmission wise because a guy blew his transmission when he was running his supra.

pwpanas 07-11-2007 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
What is the best way to get to 1000rwhp "safely" without the car blowin up in my face( by the way I have a 1994 mkiv supra tt)...

Is your '94 Supra TT a 6spd or auto?

Either way, the #1 way to do it "safely" is with race fuel. No way you can get that on meth alone, unless you fill your entire fuel tank with it.

After you've got it firmly fixed in your mind that you absolutely will need to run race fuel in your fuel tank (no pump gas at all), you'll also need a complete fuel system upgrade, a very large turbo upgrade, a standalone ecu w/ignition amplifier, and lots of dyno tuning.

Also, the oem 2jz-gte will handle 850rwhp (6spd), but for 1000rwhp you'll need to replace the connecting rods (preferrably with Carillos).
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...I have seen some turbo kits/engine kits for the supra but what would be a better and safer method a parallel twin turbo or a single turbo and which would be quicker spooling...

Both are just as good and just as safe and just as quick spooling. Of course, the single is cheaper, and with fewer parts in theory it's more reliable. If you want to dramatically increase spool of the big twins or the big single, you'll need to run nos.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...I am planning on a alchohol/meth injection because this will be a daily driver too....

Again, that won't be anywhere near enough to make 1000rwhp on pump gas. You'll need to either run pure meth in your fuel tank (and double the capacity of the aftermarket fuel system), or run pure race fuel.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...I already have wider fenders to accomodate bigger and wider tires for traction...

How wide? Also, what kind of rubber do you run? There pretty much isn't a street tire on the planet that'll hook 1000rwhp...
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...and what other modifications should I make like body, transmission wise because a guy blew his transmission when he was running his supra.

Yep if you have an auto you'll need to swap it with a TH400 kit (Sound Performance makes a complete kit specifically for the Mkiv Supra TT, with a special TH400 designed to manage the variable power of the 2jz-gte with a big single).

The other mods depend on your application (drifting? autocross? highway pulls? 1/4 mile? standing mile? roadracing? 1/8th mile? daily driving? etc.)

Hopefully that info is enough for us to start a dialog...

JPDsupra 07-11-2007 06:12 PM

Its a six speed and I'm not running any tires yet because I havent decided and I have seen other 1000 rwhp supras run on pump gas 93 octane and they didnt seem to have a problem and I have seen people achieve a lot of horsepower without race fuel.... This has nothing to do with the topic but is it true that the more displacement an engine have the faster the turbos will spool and that they will be more powerful, jw

pwpanas 07-11-2007 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...I have seen other 1000 rwhp supras run on pump gas 93 octane and they didnt seem to have a problem...

I'm sorry to inform you that you have been badly misinformed. In other words, you really have not "seen" ANY "1000rwhp supras run" that power level "on pump gas 93 octane", because it's absolutely impracticable. If you can name even one Supra you think has done that, please post it here and I'll track down the truth for you...
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...I have seen people achieve a lot of horsepower without race fuel...

Sure, it's possible to make big power without race fuel, but only with a HUGE displacement engine (eg. a $17,000.00, big block V8 that's been bored & stroked to about 10L (632ci) of displacement)...i.e. NOT with a little 183ci 6cyl 2jz-gte (Supra engine). The only way to make anywhere near 1000rwhp with a 3L engine is with big boost (either turbo, supercharger, or chemical (aka nos)), which means very high cylinder pressures, which in turn means you must either run high octane fuel or else you will detonate (and almost instantly wreck the engine). You can make big power with a 2jz-gte, but that power comes at a price ... and the first price you must plan on paying for that big power (eg. 1000rwhp), is for race fuel.

Personally I don't see the big deal. "Race fuel" is just different 'brew' of dinosaur remains. A 3L engine means you can still make 25+mpg on the highway (off boost, of course), which is something you could never do with a 10L big block v8. Sure the fill-up will be a bit more pricey when you choose to put down that 1000rwhp...but a 3L engine is lighter too, which helps overall hp-to-weight ratio!
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...This has nothing to do with the topic but is it true that the more displacement an engine have the faster the turbos will spool and that they will be more powerful...

It all depends on exactly what you mean by "faster" and "more powerful". If you mean "faster" in terms of 1/4 mile times (or time ticking on a stopwatch), then probably not (i.e. not "faster"). If you mean "faster" in terms of making power sooner in the rpm band, then maybe yes (even though a downshift instantly eliminates that advantage). If you mean "more powerful" in terms of total horsepower, then probably not. If you mean "more powerful" in terms of total horsepower at a given/specific boost level and octane combination, then maybe yes.

JPDsupra 07-13-2007 05:04 PM

thanx for the info and answering all my questions and what octane race fuel should i use? By the way your extremely smart and basically knows everthing about supras and engines agan thanx for the help.

pwpanas 07-14-2007 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
thanx for the info and answering all my questions and what octane race fuel should i use? By the way your extremely smart and basically knows everthing about supras and engines agan thanx for the help.

Glad to help.

The octane of fuel depends mainly on how much boost you need to run. To make 1000rwhp with a 6spd, you'll likely have to run about 32psi of boost (depending on turbo size, timing curve, tuning, cams, etc.), which means you'll probably need pure c16 (116 octane) fuel in the tank.

JPDsupra 07-16-2007 03:12 AM

Ok so 116 octane fuel, what turbo size and what kind of turbos would you recommend and what would be any company that does the type of fuel system upgrade that I need to run and what other adjustments like strengthening the block or anything else I would need, btw how much does 116 octane fuel cost?

pwpanas 07-16-2007 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
Ok so 116 octane fuel, what turbo size and what kind of turbos would you recommend...

For 1000rwhp (6spd) you'll need a 76mm turbo. Sound-Performance is a great company to choose, since they've pre-matched & tested both the compressor and the turbine a/r to the needs of the 2jz-gte.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...and what would be any company that does the type of fuel system upgrade that I need to run...

Sound Performance also sells fuel systems. I used to make and sell them too, before I started working 12+hr days at my new job...
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...and what other adjustments like strengthening the block...

Again, only the connecting rods need to be changed over 850rwhp. Everything else is just fine for 1000rwhp.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...or anything else I would need...

You'll need a different intake plenum - the oem plenum is only flow balanced to about 750rwhp or so. I like this one, by Virtual Works.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...btw how much does 116 octane fuel cost?

I'd guess about $9/gal...

JPDsupra 07-16-2007 04:35 PM

One more thing what should I do to the tranmission I know you said to rebuild it but where should I go and what parts should I get to upgrade the transmission. I really dont like rollcages but I think it would be smart to put one in what would be a good rollcage that wont obstruct like when I get out of the car or anything else because I really dont want it to look like a full blown race car. what would be a good suspension upgrade

pwpanas 07-17-2007 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
One more thing what should I do to the tranmission I know you said to rebuild it...

Really? If it's a 6spd, there's no need to rebuild, and I never said to rebuild it (see above "if you have an auto"). Several Mkiv's have run 1400rwhp+ through the 6spd getrag...
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...but where should I go and what parts should I get to upgrade the transmission...

Again, if it's a 6spd, don't "upgrade" it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...I really dont like rollcages but I think it would be smart to put one in what would be a good rollcage that wont obstruct like when I get out of the car or anything else because I really dont want it to look like a full blown race car....

You can't have it both ways...the best would be a fully custom cage.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...what would be a good suspension upgrade

Again, what is your application? (I already asked you this question, at the end of post #2, above)...

JPDsupra 07-17-2007 05:16 PM

basically what I want this car for is as a weekend track car that handles pretty well, nothing extreme, and a car that I can take to drag racing events. How much boost will the car have to run at to achieve 1000rwhp and if I lower it can I run on pump gas I know that it wont be 1000hp but when I just wanna drive it.

I saw your supra on the links your work is amazing how much horsepower is it pushing out or how much is ur planend horsepower

pwpanas 07-18-2007 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
basically what I want this car for is as a weekend track car that handles pretty well, nothing extreme...

What kind of "track"? Autocross? Drift? Dragrace track? Roadrace? Rally?
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...and a car that I can take to drag racing events...

You can take almost any car to drag racing events. What kind of performance do you expect from it when you get there? 12s? 10s? 8s?

Note: If you want to build a 1000rwhp Mkiv Supra that you can both dragrace and roadrace effectively, you're talking some REALLY big $ - probably close to 6 figures. If you want it to be show-quality too, then you'll be over 6 figures easy...
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...How much boost will the car have to run at to achieve 1000rwhp...

I already posted the answer to this question (click this link to get to my post, above) - about 32psi or so, depending on several items.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...and if I lower it can I run on pump gas I know that it wont be 1000hp but when I just wanna drive it....

Sure. Just be d@mn sure your boost stays down, or it's kaboom bye-bye to the engine.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...I saw your supra on the links your work is amazing how much horsepower is it pushing out or how much is ur planend horsepower

Thank you for your kind words! :) About 800rwhp now, and planned is about 1250rwhp or so.

JPDsupra 07-18-2007 11:40 PM

Low 9s to high 8s and i forgot you said 32 psi. Well thanx for all the help and Ill keep you posted on my progress. And one more question from an earlier post from someone else you said that the oem stock internals have to be changed after 900rwhp what has to be changed? What is a safe boost pressure to run 93 octane gas(pump gas)

pwpanas 07-19-2007 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
Low 9s to high 8s and i forgot you said 32 psi....

Ok...so now, what kind of "track" did you mean when you said "I want this car for is as a weekend track car that handles pretty well, nothing extreme"???
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...Well thanx for all the help and Ill keep you posted on my progress. And one more question...

Only one question? Are you sure? ;)
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...from an earlier post from someone else you said that the oem stock internals have to be changed after 900rwhp what has to be changed?...

850rwhp with a bone-stock longblock is max for safety & longevity. If you want to try to push it to 900rwhp, you'll probably be pushing your luck although it might work if you're incredibly meticulous with your tuning. Max recorded rwhp with a stock shortblock is over 1000rwhp for a single dyno run...so a bone stock 2jz-gte will actually hold at 1000rwhp, but probably not for long. If you know you're going to run over 850rwhp, I have to strongly recommend that you at least change the connecting rods (preferrably to Carillos).
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...What is a safe boost pressure to run 93 octane gas(pump gas)

Hmmm...I may not be great at counting, but I'm pretty sure that's two questions. :) j/k lol

With the stock ecu, 16psi is max for safety & engine longevity. The more you push it past point, the faster your engine's performance will measurably degrade.

Oh, don't forget that with boost spikes and boost creep, it's a major undertaking to rock-solid reliably keep boost down below a certain level. In other words, don't expect you'll be able to simply pop in a $400 boost controller and run 32psi with a big turbo one day, click a switch, and then lock that same big turbo down below 16psi...it's nowhere near that easy (in fact there's probably only a small handful of amateurs that have ever achieved rock-solid-reliable boost control in all conditions). This is a pretty complex subject - please let me know when you're at the point that you've got the cash ready to start building this particular part of your system and I'll give you some pointers.

JPDsupra 07-19-2007 03:30 PM

Forget the handling part its just gonna be a weekend Drag racer and when I said "nothing extreme" I meant like suspension wise just so it will be able to turn right and wont kill my back when' i go over potholes. Would it be a good idea to take weight out of the car cuz I know that less weight equals more speed but sometimes it means less traction One of my freinds told me not to take weight from the back instead from the back though the supra is a relatively heavy car not bimmer heavy but heavier than a 350z or an evo or sti. By the way I have about 60k scrapped up right now that I can spend for modification (I already got the car) I think this will easily get to 80k+ but it all depends on what I do

pwpanas 07-20-2007 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
Forget the handling part its just gonna be a weekend Drag racer...

Ok, now to do easy 9s you'll need slicks, skinnies, and a TH400.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...and when I said "nothing extreme" I meant like suspension wise just so it will be able to turn right and wont kill my back when' i go over potholes....

A stiff suspension is only for roadracing. For drag racing you want the @ss end to squat down, and you completely disconnect the front sway bar.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...Would it be a good idea to take weight out of the car cuz I know that less weight equals more speed but sometimes it means less traction...

If you want 9s or 8s, yes remove weight. To get traction you need tires (aka slicks & skinnies), not less weight. For example, if you run low-profile roadrace rubber on the rear, you'll spin no matter how heavy it is.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...One of my freinds told me not to take weight from the back instead from the back though the supra is a relatively heavy car not bimmer heavy but heavier than a 350z or an evo or sti...

Take out weight wherever you can, for faster times. For example, it's good to relocate the (heavy) car battery to the rear, but it's even better to move it to the rear AND replace it with a lightweight drag racing battery.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...By the way I have about 60k scrapped up right now that I can spend for modification (I already got the car) I think this will easily get to 80k+ but it all depends on what I do

Agreed - high 8s will be a lot more expensive than high 9s, for example.

JPDsupra 07-20-2007 03:11 AM

Carbon Fiber is better than fiberglass right(I think its stronger and lighter) though expensive but will suit my purposes um are there fully carbon fiber fenders I know about doors and trunk lids, hoods but I dont know about fender are there cf fenders and bumpers. Is a wing necessary cuz I love the way the wing looks on the supra or will it slow me down.

pwpanas 07-20-2007 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
Carbon Fiber is better than fiberglass right...

Right
Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
...(I think its stronger and lighter) though expensive but will suit my purposes um are there fully carbon fiber fenders I know about doors and trunk lids, hoods but I dont know about fender are there cf fenders and bumpers. Is a wing necessary cuz I love the way the wing looks on the supra or will it slow me down.

Almost every type of wing will slow you down for straight-line drag racing (i.e. no turns). The only exception is a drag-specific wing that extends straight back from the hatch:
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c...1958_108565891

JPDsupra 07-24-2007 07:37 PM

Umm one more question what did u mean when you said topspeed do you mean like the salt flats or topping out the speedometer

pwpanas 07-25-2007 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
Umm one more question what did u mean when you said topspeed do you mean like the salt flats or topping out the speedometer

Either one, although topping out the speedometer on the salt flats is probably safer than some of the other alternatives...

JPDsupra 07-25-2007 02:05 AM

How fast you planning to go 250mph i presume especially with 1250hp faster than a bugatti veyron or twin turbo hennessey viper

pwpanas 07-26-2007 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDsupra
How fast you planning to go 250mph i presume especially with 1250hp faster than a bugatti veyron or twin turbo hennessey viper

There are lots of cooling and aerodynamics issues to consider when modifying a car for 220mph+...in other words, it's not only about rwhp.

JPDsupra 07-26-2007 02:55 AM

I know you have to worry about aerodynamics(lift and drag and a bunch of different factors) and cooling cause the engine gets too hot at high speeds and it is extremely hard to get to that speed, why do companies like maclaron, bugatti,ferrari, and many other companies spend millions on expermenting. The only way to get speed is to have rwhp.


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