new here and thinking about getting a Supra
 

Hi Everyone, I have been looking into getting a supra for quite some time and I have quite a few questions that I hope can be answered here. Let me start off by saying that I am looking to get a TT 6speed MKIV Supra. I will also give you a little insight on why I want a Supra and what I will do with it. First off I just want to state that the Supra is absolutely a sex machine and is one of the best looking cars in my opinion. I have always wanted one but it was impractical for a first car and now I have a slight chance to get my dream car. So enough chit-chat I will be keeping the car stock (or with whatever upgrades may come with it) for a while. I will slowly upgrade it but I am very young so money is a big issue. I just want a fast, sexy daily driver not a full race car. I want to be able to do weekend drag racing and maybe even autoX. I hope this does not boar anyone but I have a TON of questions and thanks in advance for your answers!

Well my first question is simple. What do I look for when buying a supra?! any rust spots any engine components that break or need replacing a lot? Any little tips for what too look at will help me a ton.

Also I am wondering what a decent price is for a TT, 6-speed I will look at any years above 93 but most likely years 95+ because I will only get a car with less then 50k miles. Condition is also very important too me I will pay more for quality but I don't want to get ripped off.

I have a few questions about what to do with my Supra. I was thinking of a single conversion because it seems cheaper then upgrading the TT. Is a BPU a good idea or is it better to peice together a single turbo setup. Also what is a good BPU or "parts" to get about 400whp and still be able to go over that easily. How far can you push the stock block and fuel system?

Also I am wondering what top mph a stock or slightly modified Supra is goverend too I am assuming around 150mph? What do you have to do to by-pass the speed governer. How important is a upgraded ecu and tuning? does every small upgrade require tuning? What is better a stand alone or a piggyback or does it even matter?

Also I have a few questions about modifing the supra. What is a good start too upgrading a stock Supra? Intake? boost controller? exhaust?

Last but not least what all will I need to get 400rwhp? will 91octane still be able to be used at these HP levels? Also I want to aquire around 400whp but still have room to boost it up in the future. So what do I need? Turbo? Fuel? Internals? Piping? etc...

Thanks for all your help


I was thinking of just saving for a decent BPU witha few supporting mods, is this the best route for me to go for what I want, or is there other paths to take? All help greatly appriciated

Note that an auto is better for drag racing (i.e. not a 6speed).

Although you'd have fun autoX'ing your Mkiv TT, unfortunately this is one area that you probably won't run competitive times. The Mkiv is a relatively large, relatively heavy, GT roadracer. Smaller, lighter cars tend to dominate in autoX. If it's at all possible, I'd suggest you lean towards roadracing instead of autoX.

A vehicle that has been well-maintained, with written records to help prove it. I'd also recommend you do a compression test, and have it test-driven by someone that is extremely familiar with the Mkiv TT.

Generally no, but the edge around the hatch should be double-checked.

Not really, but this heavily depends on mileage, maintenance, and modifications. Too much boost on pump gas can damage the pistons (which is why I suggested a compression check). The oem crank pulley can separate in Mkiv's > 125K miles, but you won't need to worry about this as part of your inspection because it either won't run properly or it's not a problem. Also, the oem coilpacks can weaken > 100K miles, but this may not be an issue if it's still running oem boost levels. This is another item that pretty much either works or it doesn't, at the boost level it's set to.

Several other items, such as cooling system components can fail, if the Supra was not well maintained.

For the vehicle you described, you'll almost certainly need to pay $25K USD or more. You'll also very likely spend at least eight weeks searching nationwide, and you may have to fly to more than one city (with cash-in-hand) to end up getting the car you want. (Yes, really: cash-in-hand).

Not only is it cheaper, it's something other than impossible. In other words, there's no such thing as an off-the-shelf sequential tt upgrade. The product simply doesn't exist. If you mean to convert to parallel twins (i.e. TTC), then yep, single is cheaper than parallel tt.

Bpu is a good idea, but the oem twins limit you to about 475rwhp at most, on race fuel and high boost. Also, 475rwhp is not a typical bpu result. Typically, bpu++++ Mkivs make from 375rwhp to 425rwhp on high boost and race fuel, and about 350rwhp on pump gas. If you want to make more power than that, you'll need to dump the oem twins, and put on an aftermarket turbo kit.

A GReddy BCC, a downpipe, and a simple hose clamp can get you to about 375rwhp (6spd), with race fuel. To get that up to 400rwhp with race fuel, you may have to add a fuel controller, intake, cam gears, fmic, an aftermarket bov (eg. HKS SS), and an exhaust (again, with high boost & race fuel).

About 850rwhp, reliably for long-term/repeated runs, using race fuel, when properly tuned. Absolute max/peak is about 1100rwhp, using race fuel.

550rwhp through a 6spd, absolute bleeding-edge max, with everything in perfect running order. If you've got 100K+ miles on the fuel pump and injectors, max is probably 500rwhp or less.

155mph.

On the US-spec Mkiv TT, simply pull the 'trac' fuse.

This totally depends on your modifications & rwhp. At bpu, it's not that important. For 600rwhp+, tuning and ecu modifications are absolutely critical.

Not at 'bpu' level...but beyond that, probably yes.

It doesn't matter for bpu. For about 400rwhp-750rwhp imho piggybacks are equally effective and less expensive overall. For about 750rwhp+, you'll need a standalone to optimize your horsepower gains.

No, you don't need to change out the oem intake for 'bpu'. This isn't a honduh. ;)

No, a boost controller isn't absolutely necessary, unless you want to be able to change the max boost level from inside the cockpit. You can raise the boost using a $0.10 hose clamp, as long as you've already installed your GReddy BCC to prevent fuel cut.

Also, don't forget to increase your octane with race fuel when you increase your boost, or (like I said above) your pistons will get damaged. Note that the damage doesn't happen instantly, because the oem ecu tries to retard timing when it detects detonation, but this doesn't always happen fast enough. Damage over time is guaranteed if you repeatedly run high boost on pump gas.

Not for 'bpu', although most guys change it anyway because they like 'the look' of that big chrome exhaust tip. You won't see any performance benefit to installing an exhaust until bpu++++.

Although I pretty much answered this already above, I'll repeat it here again: to be guaranteed to make 400rwhp, you'll need to go full bpu++++, which means a GReddy BCC, a downpipe, and a simple hose clamp, race fuel, fuel controller, intake, cam gears, fmic, an aftermarket bov (eg. HKS SS), and an exhaust.

No, not reliably, with the oem ecu controlling the timing.

I can't answer this question without knowing the absolute max rwhp you want to achieve when you "boost it up in the future".

It all depends how much $ you have to spend, what you ultimately want to achieve in terms of rwhp, and whether or not you will be paying someone else do do the modificaitons to your Supra. Generally, if you can afford it up front, your cheapest overall route is to buy a Supra that's already been modified to 750rwhp, for example, if that's what you ultimately want.

Wow! Thank you for the great response to my questions. I would just like to say yes Auto Trans may be better but nothing is more fun then a 6-speed and I am not too concerned with drag racing, its just for fun. Autox would just be a fun thing but yes I considered roadracing although I havent looked into it very much.

haha this is great, It took my honda every part upgraded to get even close to those hp levels. Im sorry but I dont know what a BCC is. But let's say I wanted 500rwhp then I could just use those upgrades and add a single turbo conversion? or would I need more internal / fuel upgrades.

how does a clamp control boost levels?

XD I know not my first turbo car, but about how high can you boost it with 91?

and thanks again for the great response

It's a device made by GReddy. Here's more info:
http://www.greddy.com/products/displ...SubCategory=52
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/bcc.../bcc_intro.htm
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/bcc...GReddy_BCC.htm

Yes and no. For example, the BCC, cam gears, fmic and fuel controller would all be useful, but the downpipe would not be. Aftermarket single turbo kits position the turbo in a very different location than oem, so the connection from the turbo's exhaust housing to the downpipe is in a different spot. As a result, the single turbo downpipe has a different shape.

No. Again, as I already stated in my previous post, the oem block is good for 800rwhp+, and the oem fuel system is good for 500rwhp. Therefore, you would not need more internal/fuel upgrades to make 500rwhp.

By restricting airflow/boost to the oem wastegate actuator, which slows down its response, and therefore allows a higher boost level.

Only about 14psi, safely & reliably. Can't you get 93 in vegas?

Oh, I forgot to mention in my previous post that you can use a meth+water injection kit (instead of race fuel) to increase the net octane level, and safely raise boost.

What did you mean by "XD"???

How much hp does a downpipe add? scince I would not be going single for about a year or more maybe I could just get the DP and sell it when I go single.


I havent seen 93 yet after 5 years of living here, but I know a few places to get 100 from a pump.

I heard meth can be really unstable though, is this true?


Also I was wondering if you knew of any good shops to work on Supras in Vegas. I know Virtual Works is here but im not shure if they work on public cars or not. Thanks.

On its own, nothing at all. However, it removes restrictions in the exhaust, which allows your turbos to boost higher. As you probably know, you can only boost higher if you do other modifications, like the clamp mod or a boost controller, that allows you to raise boost. That increased boost level, provides quite a bit more power (I'd estimate up to 50rwhp more, at max boost). Without a downpipe, you'll probably be limited to less than 350rwhp.

Yes, that's a pretty common upgrade path.

No. In fact, methanol is 100% for sure NOT unstable. It's just wood alcohol for goodness sakes!!! Where on earth did you hear that? Maybe they were thinking of nitromethane (or nitrous oxide, ...or trinitrotoluene? :crazy: ) and not methanol.

Methanol (or any alcohol) is a bit corrosive though (especially to aluminum)...so if you install a meth kit and then boost a lot, it's best to drive your car around for a couple of minutes afterwards to flush all of the meth out of your intake system.

I can probably get you some good recommendations. Please post here or PM me after you've purchased your Supra and you're ready to get your upgrades installed, and I'll track down good shop(s) in your area.

Lastly, please note that there's a lot of other great information on the links posted in this thread:
http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/...ead.php?t=7287
...many of the questions you asked above are addressed in more detail at those links.

my 0.02
 

I would recomend a manual transmition for any type of racing over automatic any day. Due to the way an automatic works you typicaly suffer a %5 power loss through the drivetrain. There may be a few good examples of automatics at the racetrack ,but the manuals dominate by far for a reason. I would also think the manual preferable for autox as well ,due to the fact that you can keep your transmition in the power band more ,ie. shift down to 3rd when going through a turn so your at the top of your gear when you come out and are in your torque curve. I've seen some pretty unlikely candidates hold their own on the track as well. A good suspension setup goes a long way. I have seen big ol' muscle cars turning rather competetive timeslips ,which I would never expect. Sounds like you have a pretty realistic dream to me and have given this particular car a bit of consideration. I think you would be very happy with it. Good luck and happy motoring.

For more info on auto vs. manual at the dragstrip, please see this thread:
http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/...ht=auto+manual
Any given driver in an Mkiv Supra Turbo in the 1/4 will generally be more consistent AND at least a half second quicker with an auto (vs. manual). In other words, in the Mkiv Supra Turbo world, manuals do not dominate in drag racing...they are significantly slower. This is not an opinion, it is a fact, repeatedly proven by the results of hundreds and hundreds of Mkiv Turbos at the dragstrip. Please don't forget that a bone stock mkiv tt does low 13s, and a bpu mkiv easily does 12s - I'm specifically and only referring to results achieved with this particular vehicle (i.e. not drag racing in general). Also, launching any turbo car with a manual tranny is very much an art. You're usually stuck launching at zero boost, depending only on your revs and driveline/flywheel inertia to get out of the hole. Then it instantly becomes a very fine line between spinning and gripping/bogging as boost comes up...modulated by feathering the clutch (since modulating the accelerator would almost surely take you out of boost again). It can take literally hundreds of passes down the dragstrip to get that process perfected...and in general, the 6spd looses so much time getting to the 60' that there's no way on earth to make up that lost time on the back end, even with 5% more power. Without serious drag-specific modifications like a 2-step rev limiter, nitrous, slicks, line-lock, etc. to assist him, an auto tranny would most certainly be a better choice for WhisPer if he wants to get consistently quick times at the drag strip.

Fwiw, I do agree with WhisPer that a 6spd is more fun to drive, and if you're only going to the dragstrip to have fun, then a 6spd is a fine choice. However, pretty much everyone I know that goes to the dragstrip actually does care about the times that they get. Since WhisPer hasn't purchased his Supra yet, I'd suggest he should at least understand that he'll very likely be slower in the 1/4 with a 6spd (despite the additional driveline power loss).
Agreed, a 6spd is a much better choice than an auto for roadracing or autox. Another reason is that the auto tranny fluid will overheat if driven aggressively on a road course or autox with a high horsepower mkiv.
Agreed. Fortunately, the oem mkiv tt suspension, along with the oem mkiv tt brakes, are very suitable for roadracing.

no actually in the meth system failing while you are on highboost or something along those lines I have heard about quite a bit.

Thanks, these are all things I considered but even if I did'nt want to autox or road race or even drift I would still buy a manuel simply because it's more fun to daily drive until you hit some stop and go :mad: . Yes I agree suspension is very imprtant. Do you think some adj. shocks with a lowering spring would be sufficient or just a full adj. coilover system? I also might get a front and rear sway bar and a few strut bars.

Also I was wondering how the clutch is on a mkiv does it hold power well? I hope so because now I'm driving on an aftermarket ceramic 6-puck with a lightweight flywheel and my 1st gear is next to impossible for daily drivng.

I agree that if you get a meth+water injection system, you shouldn't get the cheapest one out there. It's like almost everything else - you pretty much get what you pay for. A good system with electronic safeguards, properly installed & maintaintained, won't fail in a pinch. The best system I'm aware of is by alkycontrol.

For the applications you're describing, the oem mkiv tt suspension would do just fine. If you simply must lower the car for looks, sure a full set of coilovers and sway bars would be nice, but until you're extremely experienced driving your Supra, you probably won't be able to take advantage of those suspension components.
No, the oem clutch holds only about 375rwhp or so, reliably, depending on how hard you drive it...fwiw mine failed about 5K miles after I went bpu, and I'd put over 40k miles on it with oem boost.

cool, so what do most people do run race fuel or alky? and about how much boost is alky good for?

Also I just wanted to clarify a few things
I will be using it as a daily driver and a weekend racer.
I want it mostly for autox, road racing, street driving and the occasional street racing ( highway pulls / 1/4 from a dig and rolling start etc.) the only palce I really want it to strive is for road racing or any type of course racing, but still have the option too do any of the other things I listed. Also I just recently blew an engine on a car and I do not EVER want this too happen again so I will be extra careful whenever I get a supra for example, If the stock fuel system can handle 500rwhp I will only take it up to 450rwp just to be extra careful. I do not ever want to deal with any blown parts again my current car has had enough for a life time, blowen wastegate gaskets, valve cover gasket and cracked piston sleeve :mad: . So maybe this can help you too help me to ultimetly determine what upgrade path I need to go for. Also would a 75 or 100shot of nitrous be a good idea? because nitrous kits are so freaking cheap for the amount of hp you get, thanks.

The short answer to your question is that both systems are popular. The long answer is that it kind of depends on your application...for extremely high boost & drag racing, most run pure race fuel (either c16 or vp120).

Most systems are good for at least 24psi (which is a huge jump from the 14psi you can run with 91). There are high-flow alky systems that are probably good for 28psi+.

Good plan! :)

You picked a great platform with the Mkiv Supra Turbo. It's 2jz-gte engine is an absolute rock, with proper tuning and sufficient octane to match the boost level. The record rwhp for the oem shortblock, bone-stock, is over 1000rwhp (that's almost 1200hp at the crank)! In other words, if you follow the rules (i.e. if you don't ever run medium-high or high boost on pump gas), it's actually pretty unlikely that you'll ever blow up your 2jz-gte.

In general, yes...especially for drag racing.

I wouldn't do nitrous just because it's cheap...because if you do nitrous properly, it's actually not that cheap. When you price in the cost of a wet kit (not dry), automatic electronic rpm limits, purge kit, separate test switches for your fuel solenoids, in-dash electronic nitrous pressure gauge, bottle blanket, plus proper installation, testing & tuning, it isn't what I'd call a cheap proposition. Again, I do recommend it in general, but only if you do it right.

I might run low boost on 91 so somewhere around 13-14 psi right? and I will run highboost on 100 octane


wouldn't do nitrous just because it's cheap...because if you do nitrous properly, it's actually not that cheap. When you price in the cost of a wet kit (not dry), automatic electronic rpm limits, purge kit, separate test switches for your fuel solenoids, in-dash electronic nitrous pressure gauge, bottle blanket, plus proper installation, testing & tuning, it isn't what I'd call a cheap proposition. Again, I do recommend it in general, but only if you do it right


Well I would just buy a wet kit thats it, you dont need a purge kit you can just purge the bottle after use right? and if you know what your doing you dont need the rpm lights.

also I was wondering how well the supra performs on time attack courses. I know it will be a beast on any stright away but is the turning good, and can it handle the constant high rpms. I know its a heavy car but only weighs a little more then the evos/stis that dominate time attack.

Yep

I agree you could skip the wet kit, but no, you absolutely do need electronic rpm limits on the solenoids (not lights). If you try to spray while launching, there's no way on earth you're going to be able to hit 3k rpm exactly to begin the spray, while trying to keep your Supra going straight down the track and trying to modulate wheelspin...
I agree it should do great on time attack, depending on the size of your single turbo (if you do go single turbo). However, note that suspension modifications to optimize your time attack performance wouldn't be ideal for drag racing.

I wouldnt spray tell 3rd I did'nt kno people spray off the line, Anyhow it doesnt matter much because if i do want to time atttack then nitrous is illegal.



Yea I was thinking of getting HkS coilovers, some sway bars and strut bars but I dont know of any good brands for supra yet I know cusco makes sways and a lot of brands make strut bars but I havent looked into it. Also What else might help suspension wise? maybe something like an Hbrace and a front splitter?

Even so, you still need electronic controls ... if you spray at too low of an rpm, you will almost certainly bend your connecting rods. In my experience, the guys that leave stuff like that up to chance, or a guestimate while trying to keep the car driving straight down the strip, are guys that end up prematurely rebuilding their engines.

Also, the purge kit is not for the bottle after you spray...it's for the lines before you spray, so that the power comes on right when you activate it (and with a semi-random delay a second or so later, after the lines have had the air pushed out of them).

You asked for advice on this thread, and for what it's worth, my advice is 100%+++ for sure to either: 1) not install nitrous, or 2) to be sure to install it with all of the proper electronic controls.
Titan Motorsports offers a good sway bar set, and the best strut tower bar is by TRD. TRD also makes sway bars, but they are heavier than the TMS set, and not adjustable.

Again, note that some of these modifications, like a stiff front sway bar or coilovers with a stiff rear spring rate, can make your Supra slower at the dragstrip. A car purpose-built for one application (eg drag racing) will always be significantly faster than the same car that was attempted to be built for all applications. If you want to be really fast at time attack, for example, I'd suggest you not worry about drag racing...or vice versa.
No one makes an Hbrace or a front splitter for the jza80 (Mkiv Supra chassis). In Europe, an active front spoiler was available, and several aftermarket body kit nose pieces come with a front splitter built in, such as the TRD widebody kit.

If you want advice as to how to invest your $ to ensure your Supra can take corners as fast as possible, invest in driver training at your local road course. A highly skilled driver in a crappy car will beat a mediocre driver in a great car every time, in pretty much any race event with turns. As they say, the best mechanical investment you can make in your car is to put some $ into the "nut behind the steering wheel". :)