Best Performance Clutch
 

HI,


I recently bought a 94' TT supra (6sp manual) ...well about 5months ago, and it was running great.....until a few days ago when my clutch went.

I just wanted any advise on what is the best performance clutch to get, i have been looking at the TRD Twin plate sprung cerametallic clutch kit, complete with lightweight flywheel - up to 750NM /800PS, but just wonder from anyones experience whether they could suggest any other good alternatives.

Any help would be appreciated (i hate to see it just sitting on the driveway)

Cheers

so far.. i havent try other perfomances clutch... n ect...
but i just use the zoom performances clutch from Napa... cause Napa is the place's i own... so i just get it from my work places... at great low prices... a set for under $250... and its a 6puck with spring loading... and come with a light-weight flywheel... so it do the job for me...

Do you mind additional transmission noise? Most twin disk clutches come with their own light-weight solid flywheel (in fact all of them, afaik), which is not dual-mass (like the oem flywheel). This causes the transmission to make a lot more noise - some guys don't mind it, but it drives some other guys bonkers. It's your choice.

Also, why are you looking at a 750NM/800PS clutch? Do you plan to make that much power in the near future?

Well that's the thing, i believe that the standard supra clutch can handle up to 500bhp, however assumed it may be better in the long run if i was gonna some engine work. I dont think i would mind the extra transmition noise but the TRD twin plate is quite pricey, so what else would you recommend?

I had a look at stage 2 zoom performance clutch which looks like a good option, as im am looking to change my whole exhaust system taking out both CATs and will therefore have to upgrade my feul pump. But what model/ part no: clutch did you get with a fly wheel included?? obviously i will have to add on Shipping charges to this as well, so i guess it wont be as cheap.

Cheers for the advise guys!

Bhp=whp, right? If so, then the oem mkiv tt clutch can not reliably handle that much rwhp. Even 400rwhp is pushing it.

You mean like a single turbo?

I honestly can't say until I know your max rwhp goal.

Again, there's absolutely no way in the world to confirm this without knowing your planned max rwhp.

Why do you say that? The oem fuel pump, and in fact the entire oem fuel system is good to at least 500rwhp....and the oem twins can't push that much rwhp so why would you need a new fuel pump???? :dunno:

Every multi-disk clutch, including the TRD twin, comes with it's own lightweight flywheel.

Unfortunately, no good, high-horsepower-holding aftermarket clutch will be cheap. ...and the higher the hp/tq rating, the more $ it will generally cost. For example the RPS twin carbon is about $2900 and the Tilton triple carbon is about $4500. It's easy to buy more clutch than you need, so the first thing you need to do is figure out exactly what rwhp figure you need the clutch to handle.

yeah i know everywhere is roughly charging the same price, so i guess you get what you pay for. I'll keep looking for one that will handle around 500hp, unless you know of any from your experience!

cheers

I'm a pro installer and I've worked with almost every one out there (really!). I don't think I'd agree that everywhere is roughly charging the same price, since multi-disk clutches are typically much more expensive than single disk clutches.

I can advise you as to exactly what would be best for your application, but I need to know a bit more about what you plan to use it for in order to give you the best advice. Please answer these questions:

1. Again, what "engine work" are you planning? A single turbo?
2. What is your application? Roadrace? Autocross? Drag Race? Drifting? Daily driving? Hill Climb (eg. Pike's Peak)? Top speed (200mph+)? etc.
3. The other question I posted above isn't clutch related, but I'm very curious: Please tell me why you say "im am looking to change my whole exhaust system taking out both CATs and will therefore have to upgrade my feul pump"?

Yeah i am planning to do a single turbo conversion, however not immediately, really want it more for roadrace. The reason i said i would have to change my fuel was coz the guy who was doing my modification advised me that i may have to upgrade my fuel pump, as i was taking out both CAT's... i was unsure as to why this was necessary as well!

Also i what i meant to say before was all twin platel clutches are reasonably expensive!

I see. What is your absolute max rwhp goal for the next two years? If you're willing to consider a single disk clutch (see below), I can recommend at least one good option for you, based on the rwhp goal you already stated...

I have to advise you to stop using that guy as an installer because he's dead wrong. Sorry to be so blunt about it, but there's really no other way to say it. The oem fuel pump is good for over 500rwhp (through a 6spd), and absolutely anything the oem twin turbos can push out. I'd literally LOVE the opportunity to 'educate' your installer.

Agreed, but why are you limiting yourself to twin-plate clutches? There are several aftermarket single disk clutches that can hold your target rwhp... Only downside is slightly higher/harder pedal pressure. Would that be okay with you?

I would say the max goal would be around 520rwhp, yeah if you could recommend a clutch that could hold that without needing to be changed that would be great. With regards to pedal pressure, i wouldn't really have a problem with that.

I'll pass on your advise when i speak to my installer, and let you know what he says.

Cheers

T

Sorry ,meant to say WOULDN'T really have a problem with extra pedal pressure!

The best all-around single disk clutch I'm aware of, for durability and holding power, and all applications except maybe hard-core drag racing is by South Bend. It's their full-face model with the Kevlar disk. Here's a link:
http://www.dxdracingclutches.com/supra.html
Click "Skip Intro", then "Catalog", then "Toyota", then "Supra"
"Toyota Supra - Street Series", Part# K922 - TZ Series Stage 2

You might ask why I believe it's the best single disk clutch available for the Mkiv Supra Turbo, for most applications, and my response is that I've seen almost every other single disk clutch break or prematurely wear out in various conditions. In other words, most of the others have serious weak point(s). Note that a common weak point is the ability to stand up to regular old stop-and-go rush hour traffic. For example, it saddens me to say that I personally saw an expensive carbon-carbon clutch reduced to a pricey pile of carbon dust in the bottom of a bellhousing simply because it was daily driven in slow stop-and-go rush hour traffic (slipped as normal when speeds were slower than 1st gear) for a couple of months. I've also seen a carbon-ceramic clutch disk chew up a brand-new oem flywheel with one single drive up onto a steep set of ramps, slipping the clutch for control. Note that an oem clutch would have handled these two situations without any difficulty at all...but of course the oem clutch setup does not handle the power. South Bend's kevlar disk will stand up to all of that (without destroying your flywheel) AND aggressive road course or drag strip driving AND it will hold 520rwhp+ with ease.

Use the South Bend Kevlar clutch ($565) with an RPS 'Cyn-R-G' flywheel (2nd item on the page, Part#RP BF-22170) (~$425) (again, as long as you don\'t mind the additional tranny noise), with new bearings&snap-rings (from Toyota) and you're set. Do not re-use the oem flywheel, the existing bearings or the existing snap rings. If you decide not to go with a lightened flywheel, do NOT re-use the old flywheel - get a new one from Toyota (~$400). Your old flywheel will have heat spots and will not work properly because of it. Note that the overall combo is just over $1k+shipping, and is MUCH cheaper than most multi-disk clutches...

Here's a clutch install article, but you have to skip past the outdated&biased 'evaluation' section in the beginning. Start reading with this paragraph:
"Prior to putting that nice polished looking flywheel and pressure plate in your car, make sure you sand the metal with some 100 grit sand paper to ruff it up. This will help the surfaces mate once installed..."
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/clutch/index.html

I'm not sure I offered him any advice...I simply corrected an error in what he was telling his customer(s). I guess my advice to him would be to research and be 100% sure before you pass along critical information...because when you find out your installer has been 'BSing' you, your first thought is that he's trying to rip you off (at least, mine would be). Whether he's actually unscrupulous, or he just made an honest mistake, we may never know. Either way he failed in his responsibility to be MUCH more careful before he passes along inaccurate information like that.

That sounds great, will most likely go with that! however have you seen exedy-Hyper link clutch,

http://www.wrc-tech.co.uk/exedy.htm

sounds pretty good, wat do you think.

Good to hear.
Yes.
Which clutch at that link are you referring to? "Multi plate"? "Hyper single"? "Cerrametallic"? "Oganic"? ???

Either way, here's what I think (since you asked), fwiw:
If you are referring any of the Exedy clutches with "cerametallic" material, I think that material is harder than steel. As a result, I think it will be tough to drive because the "cerametallic" clutch disk material will strongly grab the steel flywheel and steel pressure plate, and tend to either stall the car or spin the tires (depending on rpm when you disengage the clutch pedal). I think if you try to slip that clutch in stop-and-go traffic, or slip it while driving it up onto a ramp or in an incline at stop lights, or slip it when going in reverse uphill (sometimes required when parallel parking), the cerrametallic material will quickly wear into the steel flywheel, which will cause the clutch to hold less power and eventually fail. Did you read the page? It says: "As with all cerametallic clutches, the street drivability may be marginal due to chattering and harsh engagement characteristics." That chattering comes from the cerrametallic material BITING :eek: into the steel!!! (Pardon me 'ranting' about this, but I just HATE how it seems that many of these 'racing' clutch manufacturers don't seem to give a rat's @rse about clearly communicating just how poorly their 'racing' clutches may hold up to normal street-driving conditions) Also, I think the Excedy clutches with "organic" material aren't much better than the Mkiv's oem clutch. In short, I think these Excedy clutches are not anywhere near as good a choice as a South Bend kevlar clutch.

Cool, will go with the South Bend clutch and flywheel then.... ill let you know how it goes!

Thanks heaps for the advise, good to talk to someone that actually knows what they are talking about, im sure ill be back for more advise..so be ready...ha ha!!

I'm glad I could help. Please do come back to post whenever you have a question, or if you can help out one of our other members...

Added you to my buddy list, in case i wanted to ask anything else.... hope you dont mind.

No problem at all! :)

Any updates?

Not as yet, i am still awaiting the parts, they take around 10days or so to arrive......need to get the car back on the road ASAP:rant2:

Hmmm last time I ordered a SB kevlar clutch for another customer, they shipped the next day... Are you waiting on Toyota parts then?

Oh, btw I found a picture for you that shows that the TRD Twin comes with its own flywheel (referring to your question earlier in this thread):
http://www.trdracing.com/supra/_pu_twin.html

I have a HKS stage 2 clutch that would make a perfect fit for your situation. And it's for sale! It only has about 4k miles on it, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Please email me with any questions at dixonm@uwstout.edu I am very serious about selling this so please feel free to contact me with any questions that you have no matter how minimal they may seem.
Thanks,

Mike

Hmmm last time I ordered a SB kevlar clutch for another customer, they shipped the next day... Are you waiting on Toyota parts then?

Oh, btw I found a picture for you that shows that the TRD Twin comes with its own flywheel (referring to your question earlier in this thread):
http://www.trdracing.com/supra/_pu_twin.html

Hey,

I have installed the clutch and flywheel, that you have reccommended and have found that the gears are very stiff now, and the clutch is very high, i.e. it is very jerky when i drive it.... is this normal, until i break it in. The garage advised me that there is around 8mm of play in total between the fork, Slave and Master cylinder, would this have anything to do with it.

Also they were saying that the Standard Flywheel was completely flat but this lightened one concaved in on one side, would this also make a difference??

cheers

T

That doesn't sound right. Are you sure the clutch pedal is adjusted properly?

Yes. That play should not be present IF the clutch was properly installed & adjusted. Who did you take it to?

What "Standard Flywheel" were they referring to? The South Bend Kevlar clutch doesn't come with its own flywheel, and a brand-new oem flywheel should be perfectly flat. If you installed a flywheel that is not flat, then yes, that could also make a difference.

They said they had to adjust it slightly. I took it to a local garage. No i bought the 'RPS Cyn-R-G Segmented Flywheel for 1993-98 Supra TT, the one you suggested, and since this is specifically designed to fit the Supra TT, i don't really see why there should be a problem. The flywheel they were talking about was the orginal "stock" one.

Would you recommend that i change the fork 1st and see how it is, and then perhaps the Slave and Master if need be.

cheers
T

I see. :( Unfortunately ime most "local garage"s (including 'yota dealerships) don't have the experience necessary to work on a 400whp+ gt sportscar. Fwiw, in the future, I'd strongly advise you to to take your Supra to a shop experienced with Supras if at all possible. Improper installation could easily explain why your gears are stiff.

Which Ashford do you live in? CT? WV? AL? If you're interested, I may be able to recommend an experienced supra mechanic or owener(s) that you can get in touch with.

Honestly no. At this point, I'd recommend you have it checked out by a shop that is familiar with this car. For example (hypothetically speaking), if your Supra shifted properly before you took it to this "local garage", why would you suddenly have to change the clutch fork or slave cylinder? Did your "local garage" break these parts?

If you have the TSRM, you could try adjusting the clutch pedal yourself. It's pretty easy mechanically speaking. It can be done with one 12mm wrench...but you need the TSRM to make sure you do it right, since adjusted wrongly it can cause your throwout bearing to wear out very quickly. When properly installed & adjusted, there should be absolutely zero "play in total between the fork, Slave and Master cylinder". When properly installed & adjusted, the engagement/disengagement point should not be "very high".

P.S. Your earlier post said that the lightnened flywheel is "concaved in on one side". Again, this could possibly be a problem, depending on which "side" they're talking about. Imo, if the shop suspected there was a problem, they shouldn't have installed the flywheel.

Hey,

I spoke to Dusty at MVP Motorspoorts last night, who was very helpful. He advised that when you change/ upgrade your clutch, they can simetimes become stiffer, however that there should not be any sort of play with regards to the fork etc. He said at 1st try putting it into 2nd then 1st and this should make 1st gear easier to go into and the same applies for reverse.

Also he was saying the generally Spring plated clutches are installed in a different way to the stock clutch, i.e. the opposite direction to which a stock plate would be fitted. But said that's how RPS clutches are fitted, but that they don't really deal with Southbend clutches, so that may not be correct for them, but generally they do fit in the opposite direction........Do you know if this is true or not???

Yeah if i had a choice i would of taken it to a Supra garage, or at least a garage with some sort of experinence in performance cars, but i was limited in choice, and most specialists are too far away, especially with me having to tow the car to them!

I actaully live in Ashford in Middlesex in the UK, im sure if i was in the US i would of found loads of specialist garages..... Dam the UK.. ha ha!

Cheers

T

Yes, it's true. You should install the clutch exactly as specified by the manufacturer (SouthBend).
Fwiw, I know a guy in the London area that I'm sure can get you to a shop that knows how to work on the Mkiv...

Great how would go about getting touch with him, is he on this forum, if so maybe i can chat to him 1st to see where abouts in London he is.

Yeah i think i'll call southbend back again as the 1st time the guy was not very helpful, saying that its fits the same way as all other clutches.... i reckon he just couldn't be bothered to explain. The reason we don't know if it is installed properley is beacause no instalment instuctions were provided with the package when delivered!

Unfortunately, I don't believe he's on this forum. I'll contact him and ask if he would mind me sharing his contact information.
I agree that many kits for the Mkiv don't come with full/proper installation instructions (in English). This makes it all the more critical that you only let an experienced shop work on your Supra!

Well i finally got it all installed, its running great again, but there is a slight noise like something is loose, hard to expalin really, but not sure if that's just the clutch wearing in. Anyway i'll give a week or so and see if it is still there.

Cool if he is willing to share his contact info that would be great, but if not don't worry abt it.

Cheers

T

Please re-post this request in the appropriate forum.