Car runs like crap, spits, sputters etc! HELP
 

Ok, a little backgound on the car. I bought it with a BHG. got that fixed and ran good for a couple days then I washed under the hood with some greasedlighting to clean it up a bit. Well needless to say that was a bad idea. Everysince then its ran like pure crap. Spits, sputter,no power, backfiring idles fine, want rev past 2500rpm even when it does rev that high its all it will do to get there. I have one SES code being 31 for the MAF. Im pretty sure that isnt the problem though beings the code was there the couple days it ran good.

Ive swapped out all plugs with new ones, changed air filter, cleaned all electrical plugs with start fluid and still runs like crap. Timing is right at 10-12* everything is lined up right. Then again it ran fine for two days with nothing being changed other then washing under the hood.

Yesterday, I found a vacuum leak right at the TB where it bolts up to the intake. Replaced that and the fuel filter today and still runs like crap. Im all out of ideas and cant think of anything else to try since Im new to these cars.


The car is an 87, 5spd, turbo.

Any suggestions?

check your spark plugs/wires, then make shur there all plugged in, check you coil pack harness wires because mine melted on me and i had to rewire it, check and little hard for any vacume leaks, test your igniter, because it really sounds like your missfiring.

but your timeing if i recall should be 15 i think, dont take my word im to lazy to look at the motor in my garage, but the 2nd marking from the left is the one you want it at.

also check you cam position sensor wires. mine where melted there, although i was just getting a code 14 and 52, but it ended being the coil pack harness, i mixed a power and ground, its hard to make out them damn faded colors, there green then barley lighter green, then another green. :whateva:

I did the same thing with my car, and was having the same problems, and was getting the same code. I replaced my MAF sensor and the car ran fine after that. You probably sucked the cleaner through your air filter and it got on the sensor.

the ignition timing should be 10, some people run 14-15

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/TechTi...ng_timing.aspx

Base ignition timing should be 10 degrees BTDC not 15. That is base igniton timing, the ECU will provide an electronic advance and, under boost, you do not want more than stock advance.

You definatly messed something up when you "washed" the engine bay. Did you use a power washer, or what?

You probably sprayed the coil packs or the MAF or the igniter and fubar'd it. Time to start testing with a multimeter, do you own a TSRM? If not, there is a link in the sticky's in this forum.

You are never suppost to wash the engine with anything. You want a clean engine? Take it apart and rebuild it, cleaning the parts as you take them off. Looks like you learned the hard way. Sorry.

ALright, so next Ill check the MAF. Ill check on ebay for a new one.

Guess tommorow Ill break out the multimeter and start checking the MAF, igniter, coil packs and anything else I can find.

I sprayed it down with greased lighting and then sprayed it off with a water hose.

I do own a tsrm. Any other suggestions?

Thats is a big no no.

I find it hard to believe you didn't know you aren't suppost to do that. :dunno:

i have a suggestion: next time you decide to wash the hood, take it off...

/smartassness

Good luck buying a new MAF sensor they cost like $400+.

go to supramania and ask for a maf sensor i got one for 50 bucks works great... and it got shipped in 1 day

Ive done it a 1000 times on my bike, truck, mustang, and my camaro. Never had one problem. Its not that I didnt know, just never had any problems with it until I get this car.

I have a suggestion, next time you try to use smartassness re-read the thread. I didnt wash the hood. I washed under the hood meaning the engine, engine bay!

/smartassness

Thanks man, Ill check it out...

IT FINALLY RUNS! Replaced the igniter with one off my parts car and bam, runs like a champ. Still got the MAF code and its a little low on power but its running is the main thing. About to do a compression check on all cylinders and seewhere that stands. Also have some rod knock. Thought maybe it was something loose but its defiantly rod knock. Im going to track down a MAF and see if I can rid of that code and then Ill start form there. Going to pull the motor from the donor car this weekend and start getting it ready to be swapped when this one dies. I did shim the waste gate .022 so the boost was right at 7psi. I dont guess ill up the boost until I get the new motor ready. But thankfully she's running.

Just finished the compression check and heres what I got:


1- 130psi
2- 130psi
3- 130psi
4- 130psi
5- 136psi
6- 134psi

Sound about right? Car was still hot from just getting back from driving it. 142psi should be perfect so 4 of them are getting close!

I also put my NGK's back in there and now it has a miss under load. So looks like tommorow ill be swapping the NGK's back out. Always something!

Those numbers are a little low, minimum cylinder pressure is 128psi on turbo models so you are pushing it to the limit.

Unfortunatly, I was right about the rod knock. Definately from running the engine with all the coolant in it. Not saying you did it. I'm sure the retard that you bought it from drove it like that for awhile.

Glad you got it running. I knew it was either the coil packs, MAF or igniter that got soaked and took a dump.

Keep us posted!

Yep! Thats why the rebuild is starting real soon.

That and it sat filled with antifreeze and oil mixed for a long time.

Still got replace the maf. Its still got that code. Im just glad the issue is resolved, I was about to go nuts.

im sorry i often confuse smartassness with dumbassness... my confusion cause you said under the hood and i thought you meant underside.

You shouldn't hose a supra engine down, the main reason being that there are 2 different types of metal parented together at the head gasket.

I think this is why they were giving you a hard time. But I could be wrong.

Alright guys I know its been awhile since Ive been back here. Ive been fighting with this stupid car for the past week with no luck. Heres my issue now: Got rid of all the SES lights except for the 52 (knock sensor) I dont know whats up with this code, Ive rewired the sensors and it still does it. Guess next Ill swap them out. The MAF is new, and all the other codes are gone. Now, it will start up fine, run fine but when the boost kicks in it will fall on its face. You literly have to let out of the gas watch the boost gauge drop then get back in the throttle to get it to move. As long as you dont go WOT or under a load its fine. But once you hit boost it nose dives. Ive checked every clamp, every pipe and I cant find any leaks. Ive checked the BPV and you cant blow through it at all. Ive backed the timing way off and all it did then was black smoke. So I know its getting the gas then. Im all out of options. I have a uncle who is a head mechanic at a local toyota dealership and was going to take him the car friday but hes in the hospital now so that puts a damper on that. Im open to any suggestions to try, Im on my last nerve with this car.


Thanks!

Ok I know this is gonna sound a bit silly but when I first got into mark 3's I did it and I have worked on cars since I was about 12. The thing was back like 1999 I didnt have internet access and I was stuck in the military in South Dakota with no reference to anything 7MGE so when doing the timing belt I got it 180 out. Sad thing is it still runs fine at idle but when you push the gas it will die real fast. Sounds funny but it will run beleive me I have seen old fords and chevy's run 180 out and they sound like crap. I am just saying this since you did the head gasket maybe check it because it shouldnt throw black smoke if you retard the throttle the computer shouldnt let it. I know you are running out of options might as well a shot in the dark it is a none interferance motor or so the toyota techs tell me so you wont bend anything. And by 180 out the cam marks were pointing down instead of up and the crank mark was pointing at them at the zero mark. But it is worth a try with what you are describing.

Thats weird but at this point Im willing to try anything. Ill see if I cant do it this afternoon.

It also makes me begin to wonder if the timing is truly right. I set the crank pulley on 0 then aligned both cam marks with the marks on the backing plate. Now the thing is, does if matter if the the crank needs to be on 0 on the up stroke or the down stroke. Or is it the same either way?

With the 7mge you just take the distributor cap off and when it is pointing at number one then you got it a TDC. With the turbo and not having a distributor I am not sure. Take it and align it where you got it now and try turning it one more revolution and timing it at 0 for the second time. and see what it does. may save you on a rebuild and might explain the rod knock too if the timing is off. Look in your tsrm and see what the procedure is for doing it that is my best suggestion when I bought mine for my 86.5 I was supprised at what all I was doing wrong.

almost sounds like you got a leak.

as for the cps timing,
http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...ghlight=timing

Update. Pulled the #1 plug and turned the crank to 0. Stuck a screwdriver in there and the piston was at the bottom. Spun the crank around till the piston was at the top and lined the crank up with 0. pulled the the timing cover and the cam sprocket marks were pointed down. I removed the belt, lined them up with the marks and reinstalled. Set the idle with the CPS to 800 or so and took it for a spin. Still does the same thing. Runs good with no boost then once the boost kicks in its a dog, it goes slow. Nose dive slow, then it starts jerking. I dont understand this stupid car.

Theres no way the #1 piston was at bottom dead center when the crank pulley notch lined up with the 0 degree mark on the lower timing belt cover. Everytime the 0 degree mark lines up with the notch on the crank pulley, the #1 piston is on TDC. Its mechanically impossible for the piston to not be at TDC when the notch lines up. The crankshaft is keyed with the crank pulley so that it lines up with the 0 mark everytime the #1 piston is at TDC. Which TDC is another story, but I already went over this with you. Bottom line, when the crank pulley notch lines up with the 0 degree mark and the cam gear matchmarks line up with the notches in the inner timing belt cover, you are on TDC of the compression stroke and you can install the CPS as described in the TSRM. If the crank pulley notch lines up with the 0 degree mark and the cam gear matchmarks are 180 degrees to the notches in the inner timing belt cover then you are on TDC on the exhaust stroke. The #1 piston is at TDC everytime the crank pulley notch lines up with the 0 degree mark.

What I was getting at is there is 2 TDC combustion and exhaust it is basic mechanics. so it is possible for it to lined up at TDC on the exhaust stroke the piston has to be up to remove the exhaust. But as I said it was worth a try it fixed my 86.5 N/A but like I told him I wasnt sure about a turbo. Because if you line up the 0 and the distributor is not lined up with the number 1 point then you are at the exhaust stroke. But seeing as the 7MGTE doesnt have a distributor I figured why not try it.

I dont know! I guess my focus is on the 52 code now. Im going to try and swap the sensors to rid of the code but knowing my luck it isnt going to help. Any thought on how to remove the back KS with out removing the starter?

Thanks!

Can't do it, you must remove the starter to access the rear knock sensor on an 87 turbo supra. Trust me. You can't even get the connector off with the starter bolted in.

Replace the knock sensors and let us know what happens.

I just got the plug off the other day when I rewired it without removing the starter. It wasnt hard. Im going to do the "KS rewire" mod 1st and see if that works before I pull the sensors.

SHE RUNS! And pretty strong. Thank the lord. No more SES light. Did the knock sensor rewire mod without having to remove the starter and all is well now. Going to shim the wastegate a little tommorow and she how it does. Only running around 5psi right now. Also going to dial in the timing 1st.
Thanks!

Thats funny, I could not even remove the rear knock sensor connector with the starter bolted in. Kinda makes me wonder......

Glad you got it fixed. But only 5 psi? These cars run 7psi stock so you might have a vacuum/boost leak or your turbo might be saying bye-bye......

I am glad you got it worked out, I am not sure I was much help just throwing ideas out there and stuff.

I dont know man, it took a little wiggling but I had it out easily in less then 2min.

Turbo seemed with in spec of the TSRM, the shaft had minimum play. The boost may be going that high, the gauge may be messed up. I noticed it had a little delay. Also I know the timing isnt exactly right. But now that its running Ill start dialing in the small things. Thanks for all the suggestions!

Igniter Coils
 

I did the same thing hehe, I Was testing some of the components listed and found my ignitions coild put out no voltage and had a resistance of /6-/9 instead of .3. SO i guess those are bad hehe. Anybody have a sugestion where to buy some new ones, or who makes some good ones?

Some new knock sensors? You may want to try this 1st if thats what your referring to.

http://www.supras.com/06/techcenter/display.php?QID=69

if they are all reading the same thing then its unlikely they are bad.

as for the 5psi, it may just be your gauge as the stockers are old and inaccurate. thats one of the things on my todo list also. so be careful shimming, dont wanna run too lean. congrats on getting it started though :bigthumb: wish i could do the same