Looking at an '87 Supra for sale. Help please!
 

A local car dealer took in an 87 Supra as a trade-in... It's a little rough, but it all seems cosmetic, and I don't mind putting some money into it over the course of a couple years.

The problem I am encountering is I don't know what's been done to the car, all I have is a VIN. which is JT2MA70... which from the research I've done means it's the NA version, except it's got a big ass intercooler with hard pipes that read Supra Turbo on them, and that's about all I can decipher, seeing as how this is the first Supra I've laid eyes on. It also has a straight pipe on it, and an expensive one, too.

Obviously the dealer doesn't know any specifics about the car's modifications. It runs good, idles well and um... has no problem doing donuts. (The salesman was a younger guy who readily pointed me to the nearest large, empty parking lot at my request and my wife's demands to let her out. =D).

What I'm worried about is that whoever did the conversion (still not sure it is, as everything under the hood except the hard pipes looked like it'd been there a while, had the same amount of dirt accumulation, anyway.) didn't do it right, especially with the NA engine having a higher compression ratio. I've searched and searched, but haven't been able to find anything to put my mind at ease about if changing pistons is required when converting the NA to a turbo. If it is necessary to lower the compression before boosting, what is a safe range?

Information that would really help is how to read the sticker inside the door to identify the transmission that came in the car, the location of the VIN on the motor, where the boost gauge would be located (honestly I can probably find the gauge... but on the test drive I was just omfg this is FUUUUUN!) I read somewhere that the boost gauge replaced the voltage gauge on the 87 turbo. I'd also like to know if there's anything that would help me figure out if the gauge cluster has been swapped out, as well. Also, I read somewhere that the number of blades on the fan can indicate turbo or na?

Any help is very much appreciated, and I'm really hoping all of my fears are unfounded, this car is absolutely a ton of fun to drive.

Not every turbo had a MA71 VIN code, I've had a factory turbo with a MA70 VIN. There is a plate under the hood on the firewall on the drivers' side. This gives you some key codes, such as what engine, transmission, and differential came in the car (see this link here). If this is a factory turbo car, it should say 7MGTE for the engine, and then either R154 (standard) or A340E (automatic) for the transmission. Hope this gets you going, and good luck with the car

Oh yeah, the boost gauge is on the right of the gauge cluster, next to oil pressure and fuel

Thank you for the info, that's exactly what I was looking for. When I go look at it (probably tomorrow) if it says 7MGE and not 7MGTE should I walk away from it, or is it still worth $3000?

I personally am not against an engine swap. Many backyard mechanics can accomplish a clean swap and not have any problems (I've done this). If they put a turbo on a 7MGE, then I myself would pass. The problem is that it can be incredibly difficult to determine whether they added a turbo or swapped an engine. I think that you should have an independent, reputable shop who is knowledgeable about Supra's (or a trustworthy enthusiast) drive / inspect the car prior to purchase. Be sure to voice your concerns with the engine so they can find out what has been done.

By the way, a 7MGE has one knock sensor under the intake, a 7MGTE has 2. That may help you determine what engine is there (or at least how much work they put into it). And as far as I know, there are no identifying marks on the engine itself to determine if its 7MGE or 7MGTE; most critical differences are internal (low compression pistons, oil squirters, camshafts).

Newbie question, I know, but how can I tell if it has two or only 1 knock sensor? A pic would be great, if no pic I can probably find an engine diagram showing where it is.

Thank you guys for the advice.

Yeah, I don't have a pic of them. They're really hard to see when they are in the car. You basically need to grope the engine just under the intake manifold to find them. They're large, as far as sensors go. They're closer in size to a sending unit then a sensor.

Actually, i just remembered that i have a 7MGTE sitting out of a car in my garage. I'll head out there in a little bit to see if i can snap a pic of the sensors

So the pics I took are too large to upload, so I can't help you there. I can tell you that on a 7MGTE one sensor is located on the block about 1" below the No. 2 intake runner, and the other is about 1.5" below the No. 5 intake runner, just in front of the starter. I believe that the GE's 1 sensor is about 1" below the No. 3 and 4 intake runners.

That gives me everything I need to know to figure it out and is probably better than a pic. Amazing info thank you, sir.

Turns out the person who was supposed to relieve me at work today had an emergency and so I ended up pulling a double. 1pm to 7 am, thus pushing back when I'll be able to go look at the car until Friday morning before work. I will report back my findings sometime Friday. Thank you for all the help.

Out of curiosity, if this engine turns out to be the 7mge variety, you looking to sell that 7gte you have pulled out right now?

Well, it's actually my buddy's engine. He was looking to buy a clean shell to swap the drivetrain from his totaled Supra into, and we found this one that had an engine in it. We didn't start it up because the previous owner scavenged a few parts from it, but we were told it has a horrendous rod knock and would need a rebuild to be operable.

If you are still interested, I can ask him if he wants to sell it. I don't imagine he would want much, but the cost of shipping from here in Billings, MT to where you're at may make it more worthwhile to source a JDM engine or an engine from a local salvage yard.

http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/...nd-7m-gte.html

You could also look to see if the turbo's oil drain runs to a location in the block near the block near the oil filter or if it's running to a bung placed in the oil pan. If its running to the oil pan and there's no return bung then it's not a GTE. The GTE also has an oil cooler setup for the engine and the GE doesn't... A lot of swaps leave this out. Just take the VIN to a dealership and ask for the info on the car's original equipment. Otherwise, the original registration info on file with the state will probably have it recorded.... OR get a Carfax report.

I've never heard of a factory GTE without the MA71 VIN (it's not like it's something they might run out of and have to switch over to the other)... but there's often some confusion over the chassis code punched into the frame in a couple places (such as the radiator support) which all say MA70. You can order replacement info tags, hood decals and glove box decals, so I wouldn't count on them as a reliable source. I *think* you can or used to be able to get replacement firewall tags from Toyota. That may be something only available to Toyota dealers. I knew of third party companies which deal with shops with accounts. I don't know if any of them will reproduce a tag with a VIN on it though.

Looks like I'm walking away from this one.

I managed to get back up there and the plate on the firewall didn't have the transmission info in the upper left hand corner, it just had the model # and the trim #'s under it.
Model # is MA70L-BLPVPA. Non-turbo. I looked at the front of the engine where it says 7M-GE or 7M-GTE and the badge is missing. Didn't like that. I felt for the knock sensors and it seems to have two of them, so it's the GTE variety. Looked at the dash, no turbo gauge.

Without crawling under it I'm not sure if I'm able to see if he swapped the tranny with the engine, but I'm actually going to guess that he did, as the gear shift and the leather shroud look new, whereas everything else in the interior looks pretty beat to hell. (It's missing the glove box door and the center console cover.)

I talked to the manager of the used car department at the dealership and he seemed to have more info on the car (maybe he's the one that took it, not sure.) but from everything I can piece together the guy intended to use this as a drag car, which would explain why the A/C and the power steering don't work a lick (probably because he didn't install them when he swapped the engine). He's got a hard intercooler pipe and Magnaflow exhaust on it, so it makes sense.

It would take probably $2000 to get it presentable as far as interior work/paint/trim pieces go. Maybe more depending on if I wanted to replace the ratty seats.

Sigh... guess I'll just have to save up some money, keep driving my crap saturn I got for $500 and keep my eyes open for another prospect. Thank you for all the help fellas, I will be back.

I would have skipped it too unless I did a lot more digging through it. You never know what the previous owner may have done or screwed up.

I hear ya on the beater thing.... I'm driving a 'so neglected it's beyond embarrassing' Honda Accord while I'm working on my MR2. It's killing me.

Yeah the guys at the dealership started being pretty dodgy when I asked if I could check the compression, too. Makes me think there's a bhg issue because I asked if they checked the compression and he said yeah, it's all good across the board. I asked if they saved the report and then he was all no, they don't save those. I said I'd have to check the compression then and he says well you'd have to pay us to run it through the shop, so yeah, I'm done.