Valve cover grommets Q
 

I need new grommets for my valve covers. I have been looking around and i was wondering if anyone knows if the felpro grommets come with that metal ring around the top. I was also wondering where i can get them cheap. It doesnt seem like you're getting much for almost 30 bucks.

http://www.suprasport.com/Valve-Cove...Kit_p_295.html


Try these. Works well for me. Comes with bolts, washers and allen wrench.

did the washers have rubber on the bottom of them like the stock ones?

Yes they do. http://yfrog.com/nw37kynj

That link won't open for me. Whatever washers you use make sure the rubber is either a butyl or silicone with a HIGH shore rating and absolutely NOT Neoprene; The material used for Neoprene backed washers generally has a low shore strength and is not very tolerant of engine heat resulting in quick breakdown and compression and thus loose bolts... you're better off with just copper washers over these.

alright. Ill go and get some washers if need be. But i just looked and they have washers on them. Im going to ask them about the material now. thanks again cre

Don't over torque the bolts (22INCH lbs, NOT 22ft lbs) and if needed apply a little medium loctite.


EDIT: Additionally, I don't recommend allen screws. Don't use anything for which you'll need a new tool in your in-car toolkit to service. Get some bolts with an 8mm or 10mm hex head... a flange bolt with a fiber washer would be even better.

So you think i would be better off just getting hex bolts, washers, and rubber grommets? I was thinking about doing that if the felpro ones i was looking at was just the rubber piece. I did already buy 6 of the 12 bolts i need from a hardware store locally and i was going to go back and get 6 more when they were in stock. Also I dont have a torque wrench. I plan on getting one next week but the think is the one im looking at is 20-150 foot pounds. So the lowest i could get in inch pounds is 240. I really dont have the money 2 of them and besides that, the lowest one they have only goes down to 20 inch pounds

12 in lbs is equal to 1 ft lb (seems obvious but many people miss it). Just a hand tightened screw will meet this level without exceeding it by much; I suspect this is a strong reason for Toyota's decision to employ Philips screws on many of their vehicles for this purpose. If you're set on switching to bolts and don't have a suitable torque wrench for the job then I recommend you tighten them by hand using a long extension as you would a screw driver.

If you can find some resiliant rubber washers then sure, your own combination will work fine. If you're using something other than rubber such as fiberglass washers you don't need to use metal washers if the bolt has a flanged head (kind of like a washer cast into it for greater contact area). Don't use a flanged head bolt with a rubber washer without something in between to prevent the washer from "winding up".

The best (albeit overkill) setup would be a constant tension setup. Like the OEM hose clamps it's a setup that allows for the expansion, contraction and movement of the materials it binds. This would use a longer bolt and two washers sandwiching a spring. You'd want a spring which is compressed around 50% to 75% when the fastener is torqued to the desired level.

In all cases lubricating the parts prior to torquing for accuracy isn't a bad idea. I'd just use graphite... maybe moly on a constant tension setup.



EDIT: I'm not sure if there are any economic low range torque wrenches on the market. Mine is Snap-On and cost a crap load more than would be worth it to most people. As the wrench's length is a function of the torque it wouldn't be difficult to make an attachment to function as a divider..... then again, maybe you should just see if someone will rent you one. ;)

I see in your sig that you say you have ARP headbolts at 90ft lbs.... I hope that's a typo and you mean headSTUDS.... you don't want to exceed 75ft lbs on ARP or OEM headBOLTS (unless you lubed them with something less lubricating than the molybdenum grease they originally ship with).

When selecting a torque wrench for a given job you are best choosing one where the desired torque falls within the middle 50-60% of the wrench's scale for the best accuracy. Leave a 20 to 25% margin on the top and bottom as most types of wrenches are not terribly accurate at the end of their scope. A beam type is easily one of the most consistent and accurate and calibration is a one second affair. Whatever type you get make sure to always zero it out (or set to whatever the lowest setting is) before storing. Periodic testing and calibration is recommended for anything other than a beam type wrench (You can use a beam type to test the others yourself. ;) ).

You can extend the range of a torque wrench with a multiplier. This is an extension of sorts for the torque wrench. The basics of it are if you add an extension which doubles the length of the wrench it doubles the wrench's capacity (so you then double the reading on the scale.... for 20ft lbs you'd only aim for 10ft lbs).

Well i think its overdue that i get my own torque wrench anyway so I'll do some more research. When I got the studs thats what they said to torque to i think. Maybe it is a typo but i would have to double check. Pretty sure i made 3 passes of 30, 60 and then 90

We've covered this. There IS a difference depending on whether you installed studs or bolts just as the type of lube makes a difference. If you installed studs and used the supplied moly grease then you've done well and need not worry... Bolts on the other hand you would only torque to 90 if you used motor oil in lieu of a good moly lube. Follow?

yes i follow. And sorry i mean i have bolts not studs. We just used the stuff they gave us and torqued them to 90. No oil involved. Why is that a big deal?

Google fasteners and yield strength. The head isn't designed for that level of torque (hell, your rims aren't and they have a beefier cross section) and the fasteners are designed to remain within a certain margin to maintain a specific level of elasticity.... Who told you to just "go ahead"? If it was in a thread on here let me know so I can remove it. If Toyota designed for using torque to yield fasteners (aka TTY) you'd be in real deep shit.


EDIT: On second thought don't Google it, you'll find all the bad info first. Go buy some mechanical engineering texts and start studying.... or read the directions next time (they're not included because the manufacturer is bored).

I posted a little more on this here: http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/...ad-gasket.html ...and a lot more on the subject in the past.

what do u suggest i do then? Loosen them or what?

Either way it's a gamble now. Compromised head or compromised HG either way if it fails you're going to have to redo the job. I'd also be disinclined to reuse those bolts in the future whether they measure to spec or not. Loosening the fasteners that much is sure to compromise the HG's seal.

Myself, I'd redo the job but then I can get through it quickly. You can try and just ride it out a few people have done so without issue... and some have the head crack on them the head. Your odds are still better than those who toss a MHG on an unmachined block (although that's not saying much as that fails 90% of the time and you've probably got better than a 50/50 shot of things working out fine). You're not going to lose much if you try to ride it out and you can get a replacement head from a GE for little money; You'll need to re-shim the lifters when you swap over the intake cam but you should do those on both sides anyway.

Did you use moly when installing the bolts? Did you chase the threads in the block as directed? If you answer no to either of these well you may be in good shape but in bad shape for another reason.

Why don't people read the manual? These aren't made of Legos and nothing close to as simple as hanging drywall.

I'm not trying to present an overly grim picture for you... but I'm definitely not going to portray it as something which is just fine and dandy... it's not and something may go wrong and cost you a good amount of time and money (and no one but you will be the least bit surprised).

When i took my head to the machine shop he told me he had to take off almost all that was allowed in order to get it right. He had some book that told him how much he could take off i guess. But i could see that if he took off more he would be cutting into something on the side. I wouldn't mind redoing the job but then again to me it would be a waste of time. Later on I want to bore the cylinders and have forged internals. Thats the point at which i would put in studs, get a new head, rebuild the engine, and get a better clutch. If by moly you mean the grease like stuff that came with the bolts then yes we did. If by chasing the threads you mean cleaning them out then yes we did. I'm not quite sure as to what manual you are referring to as far as "reading the manual" goes. To me i would rather have it over tight then not tight enough.

And that is where you've gone grievously wrong. Trust me, 99.999% of the time, the engineers who wrote the book (and in some cases helped design the parts/engine/car/whatever) know a LOT more than you. ;) Heads warp or crack from this kind of mentality... So do rims and brake components; Fuel systems develop cracks, leak and start fires. I don't care if you strip a bolt that's holding in your stereo, but if you're putting 50lbs on a caliper glide bolt which is spec'd for 27 just because you think it's a good idea then you're asking for a fool's end.... I REALLY hope you took greater care when reinstalling your fuel components and lines.

I asked about the lube because different types of lube perform differently. Torquing head bolts to 90ft lbs when using regular 30 weight oil is close to torquing to only 75ft lbs using moly (because moly is a much more efficient lubricant). The torque isn't really the pressure you're aiming for, what you're aiming for is the axial load or clamping force (radial stresses are another concern). Torque offers a simpler way of getting a fastener to within a desired load range. As long the factors involved are as consistent as possible the load on each fastener is more likely to be uniform with those neighboring it and thus less likely to cause undo and uneven stress. One of the biggest factors is friction: threads, cap and washers and lubricants used. Some fasteners actually are hollow so you can measure just how much it has stretched as it is tightened and calculate the clamping force that's been reached... Naturally there are other requirements which render them an impractical solution for your average job. There is a crazy amount of physics behind things as simple as a bolt; I can't say I really understand all of it myself.

Just so you and anyone else reading understands how big of a difference this really is; If assembled dry at 90ft lbs you've got about 11500 lbs of force on each bolt (this doesn't even include the radial stresses). It's supposed to have only around 9500 lbs. :eek: Allowing for variances in each fastener, the threads and other point of friction these numbers will vary a bit from one bolt to the next and with the molybdenum lubricant it's significantly higher. So does 2000 POUNDS of pressure past the bolts rated ability still make you feel better? You couldn't get me to jump out of a plane with a parachute that's rated for even one ounce less than I weight... :D

Chasing threads (with a thread chase sometimes called a "cleaning chase") is when you use a thread chase to redefine/restore the threads; It's not just about cleaning but it does that too. Lacking a chase you may use a tap but it's not the best as it always removes additional material and can easily ruin good threads and weaken the overall assembly if not started with care. Think of a thread chase as a gentle and slightly rounded tap.

At this point I would probably take more of a "fuck it" attitude... It's not a customer's car, right? If the head hasn't been retorqued yet I might go ahead and back off each fastener 1/4 turn and then one more 1/4 turn. From there I'd measure each with a beam torque wrench, in order, until the tightest one was identified. Torque the others (again in order) until they all meet that one and then give it one more pass and tighten each just 4 or 5 ft lbs to try to ensure uniformity. Run it for a few heat cycles (drive it for a week) and torque a final time to make sure they're all even (back them 1/8 turn or so and then torque back to whatever level you settled on). If you've already re-torqued the bolts and put several hundred miles on it I wouldn't really try much beyond backing them off 1/4 turn (if even that).

Did you have the block resurfaced? If not did you measure it and make sure it is straight?

Thanks for the info cre it gave me a better idea. We didnt shave the block but it was fine. We used a stock head gasket because we didnt shave the block.

Ok, well if it's straight (truly flat) and the torque is relatively uniform then the most significant concerns come down to the yield strength of the fasteners and the head. You can't back it off a lot without possibly compromising the HG. I suppose if I ended up in your shoes and wasn't able to redo the job I'd try go the route I suggested.... lighten the load what little bit I felt was safe and then leave it alone.

Everyone would do well to actually read the service manual and the spec sheets for the parts you are installing/servicing prior to executing the job and take it on faith that they have some idea what they're talking about. Even with the lower torque spec these things held up fine for more than a decade... seldom blowing sooner than 100,000 miles. Toyota may have required a lower torque than normal but it performed just fine in my opinion.

I should have asked prior, what manual are you using?

Before I forget, if you've over-torqued the timing belt idler/tensioner pulley you may want to correct that as soon as possible. It's been proven that even a small fraction over spec will pull cylinder #1 out of round.

We used the Hanes repair manual. The only thing we used a torque wrench on were the head bolts. I know im gonna hear it for that one. But thats why im getting my own torque wrench. That way i can torque everything.

Nope, not going to hear anything... I'm done. Good luck with it. :crazy2:

For some reason I said earlier in this thread and in one other yesterday that the spec for the valve cover screws is 12 in lbs... dunno where I got that, but to clarify it's 22 in lbs.

yes yes of course cre. I got the bolts and ended up getting washers and the rubber piece myself from a hardware store.