start up fail help!!!!
 

86.5 mk3 New/rebuilt engine is now installed, I triple checked all of my wiring and vacuum connections (per diagrams), filled it up with coolant and oil and attempted to start the engine.

GRRIINNNDDDD!!!!! *click* grriiiinndddd *click* it wont even turn over..
The compression ratio is about 10.5:1 with the milled head, MLS gasket, and decked block.

EEeeekkkkk!!! wtf?! I am a VERY meticulous mechanic. I do EVERYTHING by the book. I dont take shortcuts and I am a perfectionist. However, i do make mistakes....occasionally. ;-)

I had installed an aftermarket lightweight chrome-moly flywheel. The starter itself is only about 6 months old and worked fine before the rebuild. The battery is brand new and I also had it tested after it failed to start (hoping it was a "weak battery". no such luck.) battery tested perfect. I had also checked the nose gear to make sure that it would properly engage the teeth before i dropped the engine in. (although i couldnt bolt it up to the tranny, i pushed it into the mounting flange and pulled the gear out w a pair of channel locks to make sure the teeth would engage) It all seems good. Is there ANY other possible solutions? too high compression? Battery ground location? triple checked timing.... please help!

OH does anyone know EXACTLY where the battery ground is supposed to bolt up? *previous mechanic had it stacked on top of like 3 other ground on the plenum. didnt seem right..... THANK YOU!

The big ground wire that comes off the battery bolts to the side of the motor.

Are you sure it's not grounded to the chassis? Where specifically does it mount to the engine? Does it go on a tranny bolt? The block? The plenum? Please be more specific. Thanks!

It goes under the intake manifold to the block. Right behind the alternator. It is a 12mm bolt and it is grounded by itself!

Sounds like a bad starter man!

Thanks for the reply! I went out today and moved the ground bolt to the correct location. I also took out 4 of the spark plugs and tried to turn the engine over with a big 1/2" ratchet on the crank bolt, it wouldnt BUDGE! it is locked up solid! I know that the engine spun freely before I dropped it in because I could turn the harmonic balancer by hand when I set the timing! After i put the timing belt on I turned it 360 degrees to make sure the marks would line up properly. So WTF?!

Also the clutch pedal feels spongy and soft. It doesn't feel like there is NEARLY as much resistance as there used to be. Could the clutch need bled? I didn't disconnect any clutch lines.... Could my aftermarket flywheel be the prob?

Thank you guys so much for helping this first time supra owner!!

Ouch! please tell me you used assembly lube?

Did u clean injectors before they were installed? i had a set of venom that one stuck open and filled the cylinder up with fuel! Pull the other two plugs and see if by chance some dirt or something stuck open the injector. It only takes one cylinder to hydro lock an engine!

Have u tried moving it both directions? I'm not saying rotate your engine the opposite direction for a whole rotation. Just see if it moves at all either way!

And on the clutch thing. No a flywheel will not caue spongy pedal. Did you use a new clutch? And is it oem?

Could be time for a new slave and master cylinder!

Could just be a clutch pedal adjustment!

Are we talkin about a 7mgte?

I think it's a 7mge because he said it has 10.5:1 compression and that can't be for a turbo.

Take out the distributor then see if u can turn it.

It shouldn't be for a turbo but I've seen worse! I must of skipped over that part. Lol!

Yes it is a 7mge. OF COURSE I used assembly lube. Lol

I was wondering if maybe the flywheel was too thick or something (perhaps causing the pressure plate not to release the clutch? Idk)

I'm not home right this minute, but I will def try to turn the motor "backwards" by hand a little to "dislodge" or realign whatever is "jamming". I think my clutch cylinder may need to be bled. Weird considering I didnt disconnect any hydraulic clutch lines. I did notice my resevoir was almost empty.... But that still wouldn't cause the thing to lock up that tight. I'm wondering if maybe I should loosen the bellhousing bolts a little to see if that helps loosen things up? Or maybe put it in gear and try to turn the driveshaft?

Anyways thanks a lot guys. Keep the suggestions coming, and I will def let you know what I find!

Oh and yes I did use a new clutch it was Autozone brand, I used to work there and I've never seen one of there clutches come back. So I figured it was as good as any. The only prob I had was that the bolt holes in the pressure plate didn't line up with the boltholes in the new AM flywheel. I just blamed it on craptastic aftermarket compatibility and drilled new holes in the PXplate. Seemed to bolt up great after that.

Start with the easy stuff first. Pull the other two plugs and check in the cylinders for fuel (or anti freeze, but that's un likely), then try rotating engine with by rachet, re check timing, recheck dist is installed properly. Double check plug wire routing. then if no more ideas pull trans. But I doubt anything is goin on in there. Which is quite the job with engine in!

Ok I was about to write a hateful email to CBhaus (regarding the flywheel because I had to drill holes in the pressure plate in order for it to bolt up and i was suspecting that it was causing my "lock up" problems)...

....when i noticed that i had ordered the flywheel for *TURBO ONLY*!!! WTF how did i miss the HUGE ASTERISKS that said *TURBO ONLY* ......sigh....well, i think i found the problem guys.....strangely, they LOOKED identical! AND they have the same number of teeth.

So what is the difference???? Do you guys think this is DEF the prob?

I was pretty sure that the turbo flywheel is a larger diameter, by about an inch. I'm not 100% sure, but if thats the case then the flywheel may be jammed against the bellhousing on your w58.

Idk this isn't really sitting right with me for some reason. When i got the flywheel I laid it on top of the old flywheel and checked to see if it had the same number of teeth. It was the SAME size and everything. But I crawled under the car today and loosened the bellhousing bolts and I got the engine to turn over (by ratchet) about 1/8-1/4". It wasn't very much but it was more than before.

Can anybody confirm the differences in the W58 and R154 flywheels?

Either way, I'm dropping the tranny next week so I will def be getting to the bottom of this! I'll keep you posted.

I can't find reliable sources to confirm this, but what I've read on some other forums and sites is this:

7MGE: 225mm Overall Diameter
7MGTE: 240mm Overall Diameter

7mge W58 FLYWHEEL vs 7mgte R154 FLYWHEEL
 

THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME IN DIAMETER. HOWEVER, THE 7MGTE/R154 FLYWHEEL IS ABOUT 3/8" THICKER THAN THE ONE FOR THE 7MGE//W58!!!!

This is absolutely critical! what happened: I accidentally ordered a flywheel for a Turbo supra. (r154 trans) it was so thick that it positioned the pressure plate nearly 1/2" further towards the rear of the bellhousing. once the bellhousing bolts are tightened down, it binds the pressure plate into the bellhousing and the whole thing locks up tight! VERY VERY IMPORTANT to know!!!

Every thing else is the same, number of teeth, overall diameter, bolt pattern, inside whole diameter. The ONLY other thing that MIGHT be different, is the PATTERN of threaded holes for the PRESSURE PLATE BOLTS. i had to ream the pressure plate holes in order for them to line up with the threaded holes in the flywheel. this was my first clue that this was the incorrect flywheel. I made the mistake of thinking "its just the usual aftermarket compatibility".

On that note; I have a CHROME-MOLY lightweight flywheel for a turbo supra for sale now. LOL its never been used just bolted up. Ill take $150 firm
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CBHau...Q5fAccessories

The flywheels are different in diameter. Been a while since I've had them side by side so I can't say how much.

If I recall correctly, the amount you shaved to bring it to 10.5:1 puts the engine very close to now being an "Interference" engine. If the mechanical timing was off by enough you may have hit the valves.

I dropped the tranny last night, there were gouges in the inside of the bellhousing and scratches on the high points of the pressure plate.

I laid the "turbo only" flywheel on top of my OEM non-turbo flywheel and they were EXACTLY the same diameter and no of teeth.

when i laid them side by side the "turbo only" flywheel was about 3/8 to a 1/2" thicker than the OEM non turbo. this was the obvious problem. I had my OEM flywheel resurfaced and i will be putting it back on today. all things permitting.

@cre

The head was milled .020" and the block was decked down .007" and the Cometic Headgasket is .051" so essentially its the same thickness as stock (i think, i keep getting different answers on stock thickness) i have also seen stock HG thickness at .053") so in the spirit of being safe we'll say

thats a total of .029" reduction. My understanding is that there is (standard) 1 mm of piston to valve clearance (.03937") (ive also heard that there is 1.5mm but i went with the safer lower clearance)

so that gives me.....*crunching numbers* .01037" of piston to valve clearance. (allowing for some thermal expansion etc. etc.)

Does that sound right?

IT LIVES! but....
 

well we fired it up today! It idles great, but when driving it, it does the EXACT same thing it did before. seemingly runs perfect until you hit exactly 4000 rpm then it starts spitting and stumbling.

I checked the timing w a light and its sitting at 10* advanced w/ a jumper on the diagnostic box.

But, I went through all this with it before the rebuild. It was sitting at 10* so i pulled the DIST and rotated it one tooth, put it back in and set it on 0* it dropped the idle so low it didnt want to run, so i adjusted the idle stop until it was idling around 1k rpm and it ran like crap when i drove it. I ohm'd the igniter/module/coil, throttle position sensor and the pick up coils. tested all of the VSV's and triple checked all wiring connections and vacuum lines. Everything seems to be perfect. could this be an ECU issue?

I think im going to post a new thread on this...