How do i pull the head off my mkiii?
 

Some of you know im having some trouble with my car.. and now it could be catastrophic.

A pieace of a heli-coil fell down into my combustion chamber and now the motor has a loud knock/tick at the top of the head.

FML:rant:

im so pissed about this happening so i just wont to get it done and over with.

What is the fastest, easiest way for pulling the head off my 88 turbo manuel supra?

i would like to leave the long block in with the tranny and spread the harness and get to it...

but if everyone insists on pulling the whole thing i might have to.

i really really want to leave the motor in..and pull the block.

any advice, Or future problems i might run into or short cut will be DEEPLY apprechated.

thanks again..

Fast and easy? Not really possible... Keep in mind that you're likely to find a LOT more things that need attention and you're likely to crack a couple hoses and so on when you pull the head.



I already replied to your other thread:

thanks Cre.
 

thats what i said?a small puieace of aluminum couldnt develope a noise such as this.. and Its is a deepish very loud tick, i sprayed around the plugs with soapy water and no leak as the car ran, i pulled the plugs to see any damage, none. as far as the heli coils they looked ehh okay.

what is the chance of a valve sticking as soon as i change my plugs and i started the car 3 hours prior with no knock, take out the autolite platnums 5503's and put in cheapo oem champions. ( just temperary) ?? i doubt it...

when i stated the car the miss was pretty much gone (YAY!) then the second it started came a loud knock deffinitly from the top of the head.(damnnnn)

The heli coils are steel, and a good chunk could have broken off.. im gonna find out tomarrow..

ill run it one last time, becuase god damn it my supra wasnt some pieace. its damn near flawless and i worked my ass off for it.

and now, literlly now all my new parts such as huge front mount, profec ii boost controler and all kinds of shit are coming in the mail and well now i gotta pull my head?

God damn it! im so sick of this man, i cant thank you guys enough but shit this is geting old.

I'm very well aware that the helicoils are steel... when I said aluminum debris I said that because that's what you'd most likely have dropped in; helicoils are very strong steel, it's not easy to break them.

I mentioned a valve sticking due to debris preventing it from closing... it's not unlikely at all if a curl of aluminum entered the cylinder when you were tapping it. Aluminum is light and the air would readily carry it with. I'm not saying that's what it is... it is possible.

You could pull the valve covers and check the shim clearances on the exhaust side to see if one isn't fully retracting... if it's caught on debris I'd expect a 1mm or more gap. It's an easy enough process and can be done quick enough if you're only looking at one or two cylinders.

A rough idle after just swapping plugs is usually due to either a problem with the plugs or the wiring you had to move to get to them. I don't think it should ever sound like a knock though; Not unless the bad plug was keeping the cylinder from burning to the point that it was just hiding an existing rod knock (but that's a lot lower than the head as you know).

Cheap Champion plugs now.... sigh.

I gave you my 2,000 cents worth of advice, do with it as you will.

Lmao,
 

damn i never thought id be laughing aspecially after tonight, i wasnt trying to correct you, a possible pieace of aluminum wedged between the valve is i think more then possible.

SO,
thanks to you sir tomarrow i am putting the plugs back in, spraying soapy water around the bottom of the plug, check for a huge compression leak, pull a valve cover and check #4 ( the one with the iffy healicool.)

and if all else fails, rip the engine out and throw in a B18 VTEC BABY.
ha, i just died a little saying that...
annnny wase as far as you comment on my plugs with down sindrom aka champions, they were brand new and free. my friend works at a discount auto. so Ha! Lol, Cre you have been more then amazing, you are god for helping me out man.

Yeah they're excellent little things for just this sort of job.

Anyway, how's it coming? You checked those valve clearances yet? That's where my money's on at the moment & if you catch it before it's run too much you may even get to keep the affected valve & seat if it's only ally jammed in there.

One of those scopes would be a godsend if it is this, as you could use a flexi bar or screwdriver to loosen the bit of crap once you've found it & then put a screwdriver with blu-tak on the end down to fish it out, all by only removing at worst a manifold, the valve covers & plugs...

If it does come to pulling the head, there's NO need at all to drop the motor. Only thing that makes it tricky is if you have studs & nuts instead of bolts holding it down, even then you only need to take the rearmost studs out to do it in-situ. I've just pulled my head & the worst bit by far was accessing the turbo & oil feed bolts, you could even bypass this by undoing the 7 manifold nuts & tying the lot back a few mm, I think. One thing I will say though, if you're lifting the head on you're own then
1) remove the radiator so you can stand in the bay, or you'll break your back trying to lift it!
2) when you're ready to go lay a thick blanket over the nose of the car, then you can rest the head on this while you climb out.
3) ideally be in a garage, or at least a warm state of the US, it's no fun at all trying to strip an engine with freezing rain running down your neck!!! :weak:

EDIT-: here's a pic of the "headless supra" in case you don't believe me... :wavey:

Haha
 

See thats what i want to hear. thank you man. i really apprechate the advice. i got the turbo off, and i got the bolt through the top :naughty:. and some other stuff. so far so good, its 12 pm here in florida and buot 60 degrees out so its a nice day to work. i think to days the day i get it off check out my progrees so far. OH and i installed my new supra mk4 TT seats in last night with my new profec boost controller. check it out! lol,

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more comin later today thanks so much guys!!




As you can see i had massive amount of oil in my intake. hoping i blew my turbo and its not blow bye lol.

You're getting close now, with the turbo off & inlet mani' out the way you're on plain sailing from here. Just make sure you undo the head bolts in 3 passes & in the correct order (opposite order to tightening sequence).. I'd say maybe an hour until the head's off now.

Oh, make sure the drain plug's out of the block too or water can get into the oil passages!

As to the oil, it's normal to have some oil in the intake but if you think it's excessive (only excessive if the car's visibly blue smoking IMO) then you might want to check the turbo oil drain isn't blocked with carbonised oil caused by shutting off without warming down. TSRM has specs for measuring turbo shaft play too.

Best of luck & let us see the carnage of the old HG when you're done! :naughty:

EDIT-: Don't Black MA70's just look the dog's danglies compared to any other paint job? It's the ONLY colour for a big GT car like this IMO, and if I could respray mine the only thing I'd change is I'd go from Toyota's plain Black to BMW's "DiamantSchwartz-Metallik"

EDIT#2-: Re: Weather, YOU LUCKY BASTID YOU!!!! :rant: hahaha, hammering it down here...

Lmao! im undoing the timing belt now. im gonna find a ziptie and squeeze the two togeather at the bottom so it doesnt loost a tooth in the belt from tdc. the guy i bought it from said he had a hks mhg so we'll find out. still so nervous.
Oh and...
MAN is it nice out... :grinking:

lol, so you want me to drain the oil too? not a big deal but my car is pretty slammed... lol. thanks again bud!

no no no not the oil drain, the block coolant drain bolt (see the handbook p142 IIRC, or the tsrm) so that the remaining coolant in the block doesn't spill over into the oil passages & bores when you lift the head.

Oh & don't zip tie or fold the timing belt in any way as it can get damaged. There's no need to keep it on the teeth if you set the motor to TDC before you remove everything (again see the tsrm for locations of timing matchmarks, it's dead easy & failsafe for getting it back spot on, plus you'll probably want to turn the engine while the head's off so you can decoke all the pistons properly).

I'm gonna sing & do a rain dance for ya now! lol. Let's see if it really does have a metal HG..., maybe he meant "Moron-fitted Head Gasket" if it's gone already!!!

ohhh
 

yea, already did that. okay sounds good. so once the timing belts off do i have to take off the cam gears? the tsrm said i did but man i dont want too..

You don't HAVE to take the cam gears off to remove the head, but it's so easy I don't know why you wouldn't want to, just lock them together with an old screwdriver handle between them & undo the 14mm bolts, they pull right off, just make a note of which holes the dowels are in (usually the middle unless something's wierd)...

I did it just so I can paint the timing cover up nice & pretty!

lol
 

i was wanting to paint mine too but no creativity, can you show a pic of urs? lol. so my car has an aem fuel rail..... diddnt know aem made fuel rails for mk3s. hmm. so ill just pull them off BUT do my cams have to come out too? lol heres another pics homes.

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:crazy2:

my friend was said first things first, take out your new blue ngk wires before they get all dirty. welp, heads almost off and there they sit, dirty as hell.

Ha ha, yeah I know the feeling. Mine had nice blue silicon hoses on the breathers & BPV before I started, now they're black...

I've not painted anything yet, only cosmetic bits I've got round to are cleaning the 3000 pipe a bit & all the rest of the boost hoses (I'm a lazy so & so!) and repaired the broken dipstick with the shank of a 1/16" pop rivet shoved down between the T piece & tube part!

Again, the cams don't have to come out really but you'll find it a lot easier to clean up the combustion chambers with all the valves shut, plus you can put the head down right side up without bending valves.

Obviously if you do take them out make sure all the caps go back in the same place & orientation as they came out (mine are marked IN> and EX> with the > pointing to the front, not sure if that's stock or if they were done as a reminder) and the valve shim buckets have to go back in the same hole too.
Torque for the cap bolts is 14ft/lb, undo & do them up gradually along the length of the cams so as not to force one end down before the other.

Also bear in mind that the cam seals have to be replaced if you pull the cams. It does make cleaning up a helluva lot easier though!

EDIT-: DUDE, tell me your battery isn't still connected? :eek2: Don't think there's anything in particular you'd damage but one hell of a fire risk when the fuel rail's on that side too, just ONE spark & bye bye supra... *shudder*

The head is off~~~~
 

I got it, thanks to you all the head is off here is the pics.

Oh, he lied about the mhg, the arp studs and i got the little pieace of heli coil fucking everything up so now its time to send shit off the the machine shopppp


Oh and can someone give here opion if my pistion is fucked? It looked terrrible, BUT 78% of it was build up only on that one cynlender with the tap. you can see it before and after i clean it up, and were it was hitting the little pieace of metal and were the metal was engraved in the headlol.

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Is pistion salvagable? What do you guys think...

pis
 

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so
 

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what do you thinkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk?:rant2:

Sorry, had to go the other night.

Well first job on the list is get down the guy who sold it to you's house with a can of gas, a box of matches & your negotiating hat on. Get a few hundred $ off him for the aggro he's caused & for lying. Then get everything cleaned up & see how bad it really is.

If the bore & side of the piston aren't damaged then I'd suggest you could get away with it for now, provided the rest of the motor's sweet for a few thousand miles.

If it's generally pretty worn looking though (any smoke? what was your hot oil pressure like at idle, if you recall?) then I'd budget for a full on rebuild or engine swap. To my eye those bores look pretty worn but the pics weren't the best for telling that.

To be honest the best thing to do for now is to clean everything up as best you can, take some more pics including some of all the bores if you can get them to go right (mine wouldn't go in focus 'cause of the shine!) and go from there.

Lol
 

Its all good man, Got a couple of questions though, well first ill awnser yours.

No smoke, never ever ever. useally a car in the condition of mine after idileing for a while then touch the gas i puff of white smoke will emerge due to bad/hard vlave seal but mine was solid.. weird..

As far as oil pressure my guage never worked so during this build i bought 3 tinted bad ass guages Witch im doing somthing very cool with and i put it ina new thread. lol, and as far as wear on the block car ran a 13.8 So im guessing it cant be too bad, lol. i just re-did my intake plenium, bored it with the dremil and nice acid stetic bath. looks brand new.

So anywase about the headgasket. after you get the head back from the machine shop your sapossed to messure how much they took off and replace it with a thicker gasket..

Well if stock is 1.3mm.. why does greddy offer a 1.mm? or shit hks's 1.2 all day. saying in the desciption adds compression.. ovously but a heard a rumor of detination problems..? weird.. and wtf is a stopper gasket compared to a reguler.. lol thanks man oh and heres my NEW intake and valve covers. lol

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Even if you're replacing the gauge you need to make sure the stock sensor is still in place and that the ECU is still getting a valid signal from it. Do not remove the stock sensor or disconnect it.

The stock is 1.37mm thick when compressed, measured before installation is obviously thicker.

You can use a thinner head gasket with lower compression pistons. ;)

Look on HKS's website for the differences between "stopper" and "bead" gaskets.




Oh, and it looked like you guys were talking about not draining the oil!? Absolutely drain the oil. Once you finish the job and put the head back on you should go ahead and pour a couple quarts of extremely thin (and CHEAP) oil over the cams and allow it to run through and drain right back out to help clear out any debris; Heating the oil first should help too.

I've heard some folks talk about doing it with kerosene or acetone or similar and allow it a day or so so that the bulk can evaporate out; I can't advise you on this methodology as I haven't ever tried it.

After everything is reassembled, I recommend running the car up to normal operation temps, talking a drive around the block and then changing the oil and filter.

yea i planned to do that as well. wow acetone?... crazy shit.. let it sit over night and when you drain to out your melted pistions will come out with it. haha. my oil is drained, i feel like i want everything to be legit on this car so no cutting corners. Oh, and the oil pressure sensor is/was hooked up when i started. but as far as my gauge, when you turn the car into the on postion it slowly spikes to the top, but once you start it, the gauge drops. weird..


I got one for ya!!!! I beleave these are the knock sensors. one was hooked up and the other wasnt btw this is telephone wire going to them.
i noticed it last night and damn near shit due to the fact my ka-t wouldnt even run with the knock sensor unplugged..
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And look at the ecu, the wires from the knock sensor are spliced right into the ECU terribly!!!??? WTF?:werd: who ever did this makes me sick.

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whatcha think guys?

A rewire is a commonly needed thing with the knock sensors.... although you need to use shielded wire. I'd rewire those and use some RG-58 coax cable. This replaces the old wiring and adds a grounded shield to help reduce interference.

Writeup and detailed info:
http://oldschool.supracentral.com/htm/knock.htm

Be very careful when working around the knock sensors, Toyota wants a LOT for new ones.

oh wow
 

damn man, thaks..

So youre like the forum guro? i noticed that your car is right hand drive, has the most cleanest ls motor, the m was a gift from god and the gauge cluster made me wet.

haha, so damn... how the Fuck did you get so noligable? You sir are incredibly brillant, either you smoke alot of crack or have a whats it called......life? hah. damn man mad props to you sir.

No sweat.

Me? Heh, I was just passing through... There are other forums where I used to be far more active. Just saw a couple people needing help, so stopped off for a bit... and well, now I'm here. ;)

No pics of my car in anything I've linked to on here... my car isn't pretty.

I own a Supra and don't have enough cash to pay someone to do the work for me. ;) Actually, I've been at this for a long while. And thank you.

Here's a somewhat recent picture of mine:
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