Crank Pulley Removal . . . again
 

I'm on 135,000 miles with an original timing belt, so while I'll pulling things apart to replace the oil seals on top, I thought I'd break the "if it isn't broke . . ." rule.

I searched and found a helpful thread several years ago discussing how to get the crank pulley off, debating the pros and cons of the "starter bump method" vs the "block the flywheel" method. Neither excites me much. What I wish to avoid most is removing the starter. Unhappy memories.

I've got a pretty strong 3/4" drive air impact wrench. Has anyone had success getting the nut off that way? I'd rather pull the radiator, if necessairy, that that lousy starter.

Then again maybe I should stick to the "if it isn't broke . . ." rule.

you could use the 3/4 inch impact gun...some people like to used the electric 3/4 inch impact gun....but use what you have and start from there

If you remove it with your air tool, you will still need to block the flywheel in order to apply 195ft/lbs to the crankshaft pulley retaining bolt.

Hmmm, you're right of course. Hadn't thought that far ahead. Back to removing the starter. Gettin that one back bolt out is a nightmare.

Thanks

Err i just got a 3/4 socket, a power bar, put the car into 5th pulled handbrake on hard, applied brakes hard and heaved away. (someone else was in the car obviously)

Popped off like a cork.

also, with the rattle gun you wouldn't need to block the flywheel as they don't provide constant load rather a jolting action (think twisting left and right constantly) to crack nuts off.

NOTE: have a ceramic clutch so maybe a normal one would slip, but i doubt it.

getting the pulley off can be done , getting the pulley back on and tight better be done right or you'll wreck the key on the crank shaft over time with little warning . rut roh

there's really only 1 moving part in an electric motor . imagine that .

no BHG's

Has anyone ever made up their own SST to hold the crank pulley while breaking the nut? Seems like you could make up a steel disk, drill 2 holes to match the threaded holes in the pulley, and a larger hole in the center to pass thru the 17mm? socket to the crank nut, then weld a short stub of 2"? pipe to it, after milling a couple flats on the end of the stub. I've got a big old 2 inch combination wrench to hold the flats while passing a deep socket on a breaker bar thru to the pulley bolt. Probably wouldn't take more time to make it than getting that ^%#@* starter off and then back on.

Just wondering . . .

I think we need something like this Paul; a member on the UK Supra forum made this. I'm hoping to measure up my pulley this weekend to get a few dimensions to start fabricating one. I'll keep you posted as soon as I have some accurate dimensions, especially the 8mm threaded hole pitches.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ToolUK2jpg.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...lleyToolUK.jpg

This is one of the main dimensions I need to find out.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...mensions-1.jpg

Bill

That's excellent, and much easier than I was thinking! Tomorrow I'll get a couple metric bolts and thread them into the holes on my crank pulley, and measure across them. Seems like one could measure across the bolts outside-outside and subtract, or inside-inside and add, the bolt diameter. If the drilled holes are a little oversize I don't think it would matter.

Probably need a tap also, as those holes are probably pretty crusty and need to be chased first. There's an industrial supply nearby that carries metric fasteners. My knowledge of metric fasteners is pretty shaky, I guess you're saying there are there different pitches? I'll go thru what bolts I've removed so far and see if anything matches. I'll let you know if I find the right bolts.

Thanks!

Paul

Bill

I just looked up 8 mm threads, and they are either coarse (M8x1.25) or fine (M8x1). In non-metric terms, the coarse is about 20 threads per inch, and the fine is about 25 1/2 threads per inch. I think I can decide which using a U.S. 1/4-20 bolt. I'll let you know if I figure something out tomorrow. Geez, I had two people ask me today why I was spending so much time messing around with that old Toyota. The nerve!

All of those British sizes always mystified me. Of course I never could figure out pounds and shillings, and quid, and farthings, and crowns, and all of that either.

I have a good friend in Ulverston, up in the Lake District, and used to take my kids over there every couple of years. Beautiful country.

I just have a lot of unrelated information tucked away, I guess, which only once in a good while has some practical application. I worked as an engineer for alot of years in oil refineries and gas plants though, where you're always trying to figure the simplest way to do something.

After looking at your images more closely I realized I don't see how the long square rod holds the ring without getting in the way of the socket passing thru the center of the ring to the nut.

I've been studying the timing belt removal procedure in the TSM, and it seems like they remove the belt, then cam timing gears, then they reinstall the gears, and finally put the new belt on. Why remove the gears at all? Is it just to replace the seals? If the seals are OK, seems like it would be a lot easier to just switch belts.

I've got everything stripped down to the crank pulley, but I can't budge it with a long breaker bar, even without "blocking" the pulley. Thought I'd try the easiest way before making up a SST. Car's in 5th with the emergency brake on . . . and it's not moving yet. Maybe need to start dosing with penetrating oil and try again.

Starting to wonder again about making the other repairs and forgetting about changing the timing belt.

Advice would be welcomed.

All belts stretch over time, which is why they have scheduled intervals to change them. Seeing as how you're at 130,000 miles on the original belt, I'd say you should change it. If you're not getting it to budge with a long breaker bar, then you probably should soak it liberally with some penetrating fluid. Maybe you can try using the "starter bump" method next time you try to get it off. I've never removed mine, so unfortunately I can't offer you any real help in removing it.

Oh, and make sure you replace your tensioner with your belt

BT: Thanks. I'll start soaking it with Kroil . . . that's the best stuff I've found. I keep telling myself I've gotten this far . . . Just needed some encouragement I guess.

Bill: I've been thinking about the easiest way to make an SST. Perhaps an even simpler technique than the doughnut scheme might be a square steel plate, maybe 1/4 or 3/8 inch thick, maybe 6 inches square . . . or any size larger than the diameter of the crank pulley. Drill 5 holes . . . one in the center large enough to pass a 19mm socket, and 4 more to pass 8mm bolts to thread into the pulley. The plate sits on the outside of the pulley rather than down inside. After bolting it up, stack up some short but heavy blocks of wood, maybe on top of a concrete block . . . between the floor and one flat of the square plate. May have to jam in a shim to tighten the stack up. But that should hold it. You'd have to lift the car for it to slip. Long as the 8mm bolts don't break. But using all four threaded holes should help. What do you think?

The threaded holes in my pulley are rusty and full of dirt. Definitely need cleaning and chasing. I'm going to see if i can find one each of M8x1 and m8x1.25 bolts to find out what we've got.

A few more photos’ Paul, I agree there must be an easer way to fabricate a pulley tool. The bottom photo looks similar to your suggestion. Did you say you where in the UK when we used farthings? you must have met Sherlock Homes.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...Pullytool3.jpg


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...Pullytool4.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...pulleybar5.jpg

The bolt size is M8 x 1.25

Bolt spacing tomorrow.

Bill: I made some measurements on the crank pulley. Here's what I got:

clearance hole for M8x1.25 bolt = 0.308 inches

bolt hole center-to-center spacing = 1.832 inches ("A" on your drawing)

bolt center circle diameter = 2.585 inches

I'm going to lay it out on my steel plate tomorrow and drill it. Let you know if it fits.

Paul

http://images46.fotki.com/v1483/phot...MGP0576-vi.jpg



OK, this and a 5 foot piece of pipe worked:


http://images47.fotki.com/v1462/phot...MGP0575-vi.jpg


I jambed a concrete block and a block of wood underneath the plate, and while the front end lifted a few inches, the bolt broke free. I think the plate can double as a puller . . . going to try to slide a traditional threaded puller under the plate and try to push it off.

Nice one Paul, I'll be interested to see if that works out ok. I see you pulled the rad.

Edit: I've just read the last part of your post, “it did work” bloody marvellous mate, so simple to make as well. This should go in the sticky section of the forum, well done!

Bill: Thanks for the kind words. Can't believe how tight that bolt was. The wider the plate the better, as it really rocked up onto a corner before the bolt broke free. I'll repost just those photos at a later date.

A few questions.

1. The tensioner spins freely and smoothly. I suspect investment in a new one is worthwhile anyway? Actually the belt doesn't look that bad either, but after 22 yrs and 135,000 miles I'm not thinking twice about that.

2. I don't see any way to get the lower timing belt cover off without completely removing the A/C compressor bracket. There's a couple 14mm (wrench size) bolts holding the bracket to the block down back that are going to be a little challenging.

Getting closer.

Thanks