High RPM shifts, W58 or R154?
 

I dont own a Toyota, but am considering a few different trannys for a mitsubishi 4g63 powered rwd project. The 2 toyota ones im considering are the W58 or R154.
I cant seem to find the info that I need about these trannys, so I hope you guys can help me out or point me in the right direction.

I dont need to know if it wont or will work. What I need to know is what is the max rpm I will be able to consistantly shift both of these?
I know the R154 is stronger. I read on here that the W58 can hold up to around 400whp, and the R154 ive read different limits from 600-1000. I think either of them will hold the power from what ive read, but the W58 might not last as long.

The engine that will be used will probably be around 300-400hp and rev to 7-8k maybe more.
Do you think either of these trannys will work good with these specs, or should I look at my other options?
If there are any other PROs or CONs to either of these please let me know.

I think I already have a W58 (out of a 84? celica). I would like to be able to use it, but if it wont hold up Ill have to find a R154 or something else. Is there any identification marks on it to verify that it is a W58?

Thank you for your help.

1st off. It's blatant blasphemy what you speak of..

Adding toyota parts to your mits will NOT raise it's value, and you really only disgrace our beloved toyota by bastardizing the 2 seperate entities.

That being said. The r series tranny is what you want.
The redline is at 6k on the w series.

You should expect 7k rpms to be the max revs for safety on these trannies.
And 7k may be pushing it. But if you set it up right.

The r series would do what you want. Not the w.

This setup will probably not be going into a mitsubishi or toyota. Im just looking at toyota for a possible transmission. I havent even picked a vehicle to put it in yet. Im Looking for something kinda light and rwd, but havent narrowed it down yet. I guess you could say that im doing the project backwards. Most projects start with a car first and build from there. This one starts with the engine, then find a good tranny that likes the engine, then find a shell that the engine/tranny will fit into. Im not brand loyal unless it is the best or most practical option.

The reason im not using a mitsu trans is because of the limited options for rwd (2 versions of basicly the same transmission) and too low of a shift limit, so im trying to find one that will better match the powerband of the engine.(potentally up to 9k or more)

I mean no disrespect to toyota, the people that own them, or anybody on this forum.



Does anybody make upgraded tranny parts for the w series?

What is the shift limit on the r series? Are there any upgrades for it?

Another option that I have is a mazda tranny from a rx7. It will shift at real high rpm since it is setup for a rotary, but I havent looked into its holding power.

please keep the info coming.

Thank you for all the help

Is there a different toyota forum that might have better input on these questions?

Does anybody know any links that will help answer some of these questions?

After a little more research I think the tranny I have is actually a w55.

First off your question was answered the R154 tranny is a very robust and reliable tranny. It is one of the most heavy duty sport type trannies ever designed by toyota and dare i say it by anyone. So there you go.

you want the R154, overall its a stronger transmission and can take a lot more power than the w58 can.

there is this forum, Supraforums, and SupraMania - Powered by vBulletin. stay between these three forums and youll be fine for all the information that you need.

there were diagrams of a w58 and r154 to tell them apart, but i dont have them bookmarked or know offhand myself...im automatic. ill browse for em, but cant promise ill find them.

W55 gear ratios

1st 3.566 2nd2.056 3rd1.384 4th 1 5th 0.850 reverse -4.091



W58 gear ratios

1st 3.285 2nd 1.894 3rd 1.275 4th 1 5th 0.783 reverse -3.768



R154 gear ratios

1st 3.251 2nd 1.955 3rd 1.310 4th 1 5th 0.753 [b]reverse -3.18

duh, im stupid, its a sticky lol.

http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/...-w58-r154.html

Thank you for all the feedback.

My main question hasnt really been fully addressed yet.

I know the r154 is extremely strong, but it is also bigger and heavyer.

The w58 is decently strong and is smaller and lighter.

If I put this setup in a really small car i might not be able to fit a r154 without cutting out and reshaping the tunnel. If it does go into a light car, there will be less strain on the tranny because it is easier to push less weight. So, 400hp in a 3500lb (I dont know what your cars weight) might be max for the w58, but 400hp in a 2000lb car may last for 50k miles.
For that reason I stated in my original post that I dont want to know what will or wont work. If I go with a mid-heavy weight car I know I will need at least a r154, but I am exploring my options right now. I may decide that a 3rd tranny from another make might work better for me than the r154. Im just looking for consistant max rpm shift points right now.
If X tranny can hold 2000hp, but cant shift above 6k rpm it will be useless for what I am trying to build.
I hope this better explains what im trying to figure out here.

The engine that im using has a stock rev limit of 7500. For this project it will be setup for somewhere between 7500 and 9000 depending on many variables.

Will I be able to consistantly shift either of these trannys at this rpm in stock form and if not is there anybody that makes upgraded syncros or anything to help them?

Thank you

Kinda thought we answered that.

BTW I believe the redline for the R154 is higher than the W series tranny, I could be wrong though. Also our gross wieghtage for turbos is roughly 4400 Lbs., or 2000 Kilos. I know the redline in my R154 turbo is 7500 RPM. However for your needs your contridicting yourself. You want a lighter wieght tranny that has higher RPM then you are looking at the wrong two series trannies. Either your going to get higher RPM from the heavier tranny or lower redline from the lighter one. I would suggest getting a diffrent series than the R or W. Sry bro. Good luck with your project
Oh and btw if yoru doing what I think your doing the W58 wont do, your going to need a stronger tranny, plus you have other factors to consider here, flywheel, clutches, etc. its not just reliant on the tranny.

This is the only reply that even addressed shift points. It isnt very descriptive. Ive never heard anybody describe a redline when describing anything related to a tranny, but are you saying that the w series will only shift up to 6k rpm or are you saying that the vehicle that the tranny came out of has a redline of 6k?

max revs for safety leads me to believe that you are trying to say if you try to go above 7k it will explode. I doubt this is the case, but maybe you can reword what you are trying to say so that it makes sense.

Also, nobody has mentioned anything about upgrades to raise shift points.

Its kinda like pulling teeth around here. My questions arent very complicated.

1.How high will these trannys shift?
2.Are there any upgrades to raise the answer to question #1?
Very simple questions.

I dont see where you think I contradicted myself. Read my post again. How heavy a tranny is generally has to do with its strength, not its shift points. I was refering to weight of the vehicle, not the tranny. The purpose of the transmission is to transmit the power to the diff. If the vehicle weighs less, it puts less strain on the tranny to transfer the power, therefore you can run more power through any tranny if you cut alot of weight from what you are trying to move. Its the law of physics. It also isnt what my question was. I am only asking about how high can you shift these trannys? I think you guys are either confusing shift points and redlines (engines have redlines, but ive never seen a tach that is driven by the transmission. Trannys have shift points), or you are not understanding my question.

For your other factors I need to consider. Different bellhousing, fwd dsm flywheel rebushed for input shaft, toyota clutch disc, mitsu pressure plate. I wouldnt waste your time with questions about shift points on your trannys if I havent figured out if I can even use them.

I think im going to have to look elsewhere for answers. It seems nobody here has a high rpm engine here to even give any first hand info on what im asking. Thanks anyways.

Like i stated in the post that you ever soi cleverly, and I used that term lightly, shot down I said you are looking at the wrong two trannies. The R154 is rated to I believe 600 HP before it cannot handle it anymore, BTW your saying that noone here has exeperience with High HP/RPM engine is a very stupid and ignorant comment, I know for a fact that there are people on this forum that have built there supras up to 750+HP. There is another individual who is a member here who their vehicle will be showcased on Pinks on March 19th that wins. So before making an ignorant comment and trying to bag us for helping you, and answering your question several times, take your friggin head out of your @$$. I am considering this topic closed as we don't need to help you, especially when you can't seem to take the answers we have given with gratitude.
Later

Ya I'm out on this one.

I never said anything about high hp.
It seems only you 2 guys want to post on this thread and neither of you have the first hand information to answer my high rpm shifting questions. Neither of you are even reading or comprehending what I write or ask anyways. For that reason you both have skirted my question, but not really answered it, or tried to answer in a non coherent way without clarifying.

I AM NOT CONCERNED ABOUT HOW MUCH HP ANY TOYOTA TRANSMISSION WILL HANDLE!!!!!!

Why do you keep going back to this information. It is totally unrelated to rpm shift points.

Thank you for wasting my time ravenmaster and supramacist. Continue to bench race and post misinformation from what others have done. I will find my answers from people elsewhere with actual first hand experience of the questions that I am asking and they will understand what I am referring to and be able to answer what I am asking.

I may not be able to use either of these trannys for what I am doing, but without useful information I cant make that decision yet. I have successfully done many things that I have been told repeatedly to be impossible by people that have never tried.

If you do not personally rev your engine to 8000rpm or better on a regular basis (regardless to whether you have 100hp or 10,000hp) and try to shift with either series transmission, you need not post your input.

Yes it is irrelevant, Because it's not the tranny that decides the shift point.
It's the gearing inside the tranny. You can buy that $hit and have it changed up to enhance your precious shift points.

You're beating up on yourself and other good people in the forum, because you don't don't know how to propperly state your $hit.

I'm surprised anyone is still talking to you sir.

The mitsafrankenbastardize forum awaits you. This stop occured because of a typo.

Hey supramacist I think we pisssed him of LOL. Mitsubishiputz. HA!

Not true. Gearing does not determine how well the tranny shifts. It determines the rpm change of the shift. It is the syncro setup that matches the speed of the 2 shafts (usually input and intermediate) the selected gear set is on. Once the speed is matched for the selected gear set the hub and slider splines together and locks the gear set to the 2 shafts (also referred to as "in gear"). How well and fast they do this determines how well it shifts, which is what I have been talking about from the beginning. If the syncros cant match the speed difference of the shafts, the hub and slider will just grind and not spline together (the gears themselves are always meshed together free spinning on the shafts) The person that can answer my questions would not need to be explained on how a manual transmission works.

By the way, your statement would be like saying "Its not the car thats fast, its the engine inside of it." Even though the car would not be fast without its engine, the "car" refers to the total package. When you say tranny you refer to its total assembly. You can then segment it into its individual parts(gear sets, shafts, bearings, syncros, hubs, sliders, springs, etc). Just like a car refers to its total Assembly and then can be segmented down to its components (wheels, tires, brakes, engine, tranny, diff, seat, body, etc). Hope that helps


Again, another question that I asked long ago
Since I do my own tranny builds, and dont "have it changed up" I would need to know who makes upgraded syncro setups, or what combination of stock parts works the best and the result of these upgrades.


You guys are getting mad at me for not stating my questions properly, but you dont even read what I am writing. If you dont understand my question, I can reword it many different ways. Just ask me.

New SP Toyota Transmission Upgrades - Supraforums.com

Dont know anything about which you speak but this guy does upgrade on the transmissions your talking about perhaps he can help or has what you are looking for

That link refers to automatic upgrades
Thank you for trying to help.

For some reason registration is disabled on that forum right now.

No ones trying to insult your intelligence or even question it man.
You're just off. And if you'll tell us where your mommy is.
My staff or myself will make sure you get back to her safely.
You may not notice her when you see her because I shaved her back.

No really dude your mad because no one gets your thought process and you cant get affirmation as to your belief system.:gtfo:

Obviously you are one of those people that lashes out because he can't have everything his way and that's alright. Because we welcome all people here no matter how special they are.

I hope that find what you seek. Wish I could have helped you.
Welcome to the forum.:boring:

This forum must not have moderators. If you were a member of my usual forums you would have been banned long ago. Im sorry if I thought this place was suppose to be for information and not for bench racing. Most forums have a lounge area for that.

Thank you Sidewinder, Supra Goddess, and Mkiiisupra for the info and links.

For you other two roundmouths, I hope you smash your junk ass cobbled up heaps of shit into a wall and it burns to the ground with you traped inside. What a bunch of fucks. Mad at me because you are too stupid to understand anything thats a little different and misquoting most of what I say. If you dont know what you are talking about, dont give advice. Know your facts from doing, not from reading. Its not helpful to anybody to tell people about what you think you kinda know because this one guy I read about did it I think. If you didnt do it, or personally witness it, you dont know. Hearsay isnt knowledge. Ill find the answers to my questions because they really arent that advanced. You just dont have enough experience with your cars to understand my questions, let alone answer them. But you are the first to chime in on other bullshit that was never asked which you know nothing about anyways. Thank you for that. Real helpful assholes.

No need to reply. Ill be looking at sites that dont have cocksuckers cluttering up all the threads

Oh wow, im so hurt. You see the fact of the matter is you piece of crap Mitsubishi moron, is if you looked at my first few repleis and that of supramescist, we did try to help you, then YOU started being an ass, so we responded in kind.

You will always be a mitsu piece of trash that, unfortunately cannot pull his head out of his ass and phrase things correctly.

The way i see it arguing on the internet is like racing in the special olympics, even if you win your still retarded.

Wait no you are just retarded period. Later.

Hehe i like your location :dance: