Won't Start
 

Car will stumble or pop when attempting to start. Exhaust is white smoke


Had car apart for a few weeks, did rewire on knock sensor and fixed tps calibration, which cleared both my codes....

While i had the intake penlum and throttle body off i cleaned all the carb build up off with a baby bottle brush and carb clear lol.

Now i got the car started once lol wont start again and ran her for about 15mins, drove up and down the road a bit and let her idle for awhile( ran smoother than ever, sounds better)

I am thinking she isnt starting due to the timing being off since i calibrated the TPS, but would it be this far off as to not start at all?

please help ;)

...
 

white smoke generally indicates burning oil. Black is usually fuel, and blue tends to be coolant. you may be leaking oil INTERNALLY or, as i've seen on a lot of Mitsu's, there may be an oil leak internally in the exhaust side of the turbo.

if you disconnected the battery, the codes would clear automatically, and being that this is the mk3 section, ur pre-obdII.....

i wouldnt be so worried about the timing, as there should NEVER be white smoke. there could be a leaky valve seal, but the smoke should only manifest as a puff and then begone.

if you're really worried about the TPS, check it for resistance with an ohm-meter. if its within spec, check your calibration steps, as it may have changed.

I've seen a lot of bad TPS's on fords, and they run like shit, but start when you give them some gas.

ALL the vehicles i've ever worked on have a generic fuel setting for W.ide O.pen T.hrottle. Try starting her at WOT. I wouldnt normally say to do that, but most of the important Diag done from here requires the car to be running. keep an eye on the smoking tailpipe, oil pressure, and be opservant of excessive missfiring....

let me know.

almost forgot
 

speaking of valves, another far-out possibility is that one of the exhaust valves is open, if only partially, during detonation.... the possibilities for that condition are various...

• broken cam
• broken valve
• broken valve spring
• miss-seated valve

you could take off the valve cover and manually turn the crank.... its a shame the oil cap is on the intake side.....

White smoke is only during starting, i dont loose any oil. Also i dont not have a first CAT. i imagine the white smoke was due to the carb cleaner residue that was left over on the throttle body/intake penlum after cleaning them (they where completely dry before i put back together)

She has never had a problem starting untill i calibrated my TPS and all the resistances where checked with a ohm meter and are now correct (they where pretty far off). I heard that once u calibrate ur TPS it would throw your base timing out.

I had a mechanic set the timing on my engine once after he put on a new timing belt and he said that was very difficult to set and almost off the scale, i dont think he thought to check the TPS.

Oh and as far as the codes where concerned yes i did pull the 15a fuse for EFI that resets the codes and drove around for 15mins to see if the light would come on again. Before it would turn back on before i even left my street and i drove around for a bit.

I had a chevy for a while that would only smoke at startup, it was white and dissipated after running - it was just a simple valve seal issue. a little oil would seep into the combustion chamber and accumulate while it sat.

as far as the carb cleaner, i was under the assumption you ran it for a while and idled it after putting it back together.

kinda odd tho.... most of the vehicles i've worked on run in an 'open loop' status untill a certain temperature is reached.....generally a set of predetermined perameters....

yep i did, and never got it started again so couldnt tell you if its still putting out white smoke on start up, just did the only time i got it running hehe

now it just stumbles or pops, doesnt put out anysmoke, and doesnt start ;(

about 5-6 months ago had head redone and all the gaskets where replaced, dont know if one of those is what you are refering too

And it has never put out white smoke before that startup

you've probably already tried this, but if you put the pedal down to the floor when cranking..... that would eliminate the vaccuum dependancy for ignition timing while you try to start it.......

try starting fluid too... i know it seems odd, but maybe its an A/F metering problem...longshot i know, but it would put that question out of your mind....

i'm not sure if toyota does it like most other car companies, but you could try unplugging the TPS and put it into limp mode. she may start that way.

i think you may be right with the ignition timing concern.... the odd thing tho, is that it ran for 15 minutes!!!

i'll stop putting all these mixed tests out there, as i'm sure you'll figure it out.

you give me to much credit lol, in 2 days when im off im buying a timing light and doing the Ignition timing..

I will try your WOT thing and the TPS unplug as well, i do appreciate all your responses. I probably will figure it out, but that is only becuase of people like you, and others in the forum that take the time to post replies :dance:


Any ways all the timing instructions are unclear on a couple things...

Where is the CPS that i have to loosen to adjust the timing. and do i loosen it before i start the engine?

Something else i just thought of. If i start the car with the TPS unpluged this will put my car into limp mode since its getting no information from my TPS, but isnt the ignition timing based on the TPS, so i adjust with it unpluged and soon as i plug it back in and try to start i would have the same problem?

the Cam Position Sensor is on the front end of the exhaust camshaft, where on my car (N/A) you would find the distributor (guys lucky enough to have the turbo also get coil packs...). so look at the frontmost part of the motor on the passenger side. thats ur CPS. Looks kinda like a hockey puck painted tan. I would Suggest you warm the engine up before you loosen that bolt(s). you're gonna need to check the timing as is to know if you need to adjust it at all..... i would also suggest loosening it only enough to move it, if its too loose tightening it exactly where you want it will be more difficult. Also, i like to find the spot on the crank where the timing should be, and paint a line with white-out. i also paint a line on the calibration bracket at the appropriate point. Makes it easier to see. there should be a notch on the crank pulley..... old timers just adjust untill they hear the motor purr as it should.....

the point in unplugging the TPS is to see if it will run. if it stays lit without the TPS plugged in, you can better deduce that the issue lies within the TPS. Just a way to help get closer to the epicenter of your no-start.

kinda funny....i've got my tools in the living room and i'm out of work, and yet my services are still in demand!!! :) long live the internet

Yea... i found a few pictures on the net of what it looks like so i think ill recognize it if i see it. Thanks though for the description of its location. The hatch mark on my crank pulley currently is pointed towards the ground and no where near the timing marks, i imagine it moves with the car on?

My car started before when my TPS was improperly calibrated and while it was uncalibrated my timing was set, so now with TPS set to all the right resistances i think my timing is so far off that it wont start, although i am not a mechanic lol. And i wish my house floor was coverd in tools would keep me from running to the store every time i did a job.

yes. the crank pulley rotates as fast as the crank itself. so its gonna be moving pretty quick. the timing light will flash at certain points so that you can see the timing mark 'blink' at you! its really cool actually.

i dont think that having run on a faulty TPS will reset the timing permanently. if that TPS is in working order, there should be no timing issue so long as no other parts are faulty.

everyone with a car should invest in a toolbox and tools. maybe not as much as i have, but they pay for themselves...

i can buy all performance parts, the tools to do the job and get it done cheaper with better result than any shop ive seen around here. So i definatly agree with you on the paying for themselves

Not that running on the faulty tps reset the timing just that the timing was set based on a uncalibrated tps

gotcha. ignition timing is based on factory perameters. most cars will read the degrees past TDC the cylinders are, and a certain amount of degrees past that the spark plug will fire. you'd have timing trouble with a C.rank A.ngle S.ensor, but the T.hrottle P.osition S.ensor is gonna cause slight sluggishness in most cars. My Summit had a faulty TPS and it just didnt accelerate properly. it'd drive okay, and just fine at WOT, but never did anything to keep the car from running.....

My money is not on the TPS being the source of all that evil you're experiencing. thats just my professional opinion... i might check resistance on the sensor along with others....but i wouldnt put my money on it.

i see what you are saying, my car does have sluggish acceleration, I attributed that to the uncalibrated TPS and knock sensor wiring being faulty. After doing the work on both of these parts the codes didnt resurface.

I am w/in the resistance according to the TRSM for my TPS so i imagin it still works... however that was the first time i had ever solderd ( for the knock sensor rewire) and the only time i had ever used a multimeter ( to check the resistances on the TPS to recalibrate)

I read somewhere that the timing was based off the TPS not sure where. Perhaps it isnt not really sure, what you are saying makes alot of sense.

If i get home after work and pull off the wiring to the sensor and it starts up fine... does that mean faulty TPS?

My thoughts are New TPS 150$, Checking the timing 50$. lol so hope its the timing

timing
 

you need to have the motor running and at normal operating temperature to properly check timing. just keep that in mind......

pep-boys had a light for 20 bucks, so hopefully you can find one as cheap.....

hmmm ill looks, hopefully i can find one that cheap, advanced auto has it for 50 :(

Do i need advanced timing/ inductive? or it doesnt matter?

Doesnt start with TPS disengaged, or at WOT

however now when i turn her over she just clicks and doesnt actually attempt to start.... I got one decent crank out of her with TPS off then after that wouldnt attempt to start

i think i drained the battery lol, can u check that with a multi meter?

Wow, sounds like you guys been burnin' that midnight oil! Are we close to figuring anything out? I had a question. In my experience, not to insult yours Irish, but doesn't white smoke mean coolant and blue means oil? Now here is just a suggestion, but the white smoke you saw when the car was started could probably have been condensation that was built up in your exhaust pipe, being that the car was sitting for a while. If not, I would say it's coolant. As far as timing is concerned, as Irish said before, the car was running, for 15 minutes! The timing isn't off. Even if it were a tooth of on the belt, which is more degrees than you can get by adjusting the CPS or calibrationg, the car would attempt to run, but die out. The first thing you should do in a no start situation is always check for spark and then fuel, in that order. You wouldn't want any fuel laying around a nice spark! Then you take it from there.

New spark plugs installed recently, how do i check fuel?


Also new timing belt installed so it has not jumped a tooth

Read about a starter problem with the wiring, hesistant to start or sometimes you just hear the relay click but wont turn the car over. That 10$ part that lets u crank ur engine from the engine bay would that bypass that problem as a means to check if the wiring is bad?

Is there another way to go about this like running power straight from the battery to the starter?

Also, I'm not sure how it works with the NA's, but in order to set the base timing on these cars, you have to jump the diagnostic box. I am not sure which pins it is, but it's gotta be somewhere here on the forums. If all of your timing inputs check out, then I would look at the TPS or the MAF sensors.

the multimeter will probably only check voltage - what turns the starter is 'cold cranking amps'. places like NTB check it for free...but you'd have to drive there...if ur stick shift........popstart? maybe take a battery out of another car? really odd... if you have oil in the coolant or visa versa, have it towed to a shop for repairs to the head gasket... they'll need it to start before they give it back to you to verify repairs...if you didnt give permission for other repairs...they may be free.....

TPS checks out, you ahve to bridge connections in dia box to set timing but car has to be started to even check u...

But since u say it started so its not the timing idk..... what it is. Never had this problem before and all i did was clean throttle body, intake penlum, rewired knock sensor, calibrated TPS had codes 52/41 this fix cleard them both but now cannot start lol

Head was recently done, there better not be any problems like that i will blow up the fucking shop who did the job lol. Especially if they tell me its not there fault lol

as far as the condensation in the exhaust pipe putting out white smoke - if you've seen a steamer, you'll recognize that water vapor is clear. if you've seen the oil fields in the middle east ablaze(or a honda with shot rings) you'd recognize white smoke.

As far as putting power directly from battery to starter - there is an 8 guage wire running directly from battery to starter.

the clunking you're talking about could be anything - including lower end bearings (hope not)... vibrations like that may trip the knock sensors....

i think you're best bet is to get a mechanic to look at it. if you lived closer i'd come see, but as i'm just outside of philly...

he is right in his diag procedure - spark then fuel, then compression..... however, most people go haywire checking sensors (me) well before busting out the compression tester... especially on cars that make changing spark plugs a pain in the ass...

clunking? its like a click, the noise some relay makes in the supra everytime it does a start, its just that i only hear that it isnt follow up by the engine turning over

So not a mechanical thing since engine is not to the point of cranking yet

How do you test the fuel system?

Prior to this my car would never crank the first time cold, took me try'n to turn over the engine twice then it would start up just fine. With engine warm it would start every time no problems.

I have suspected the fuel system before. New battery in car, and had advanced auto test alternator said it was good. New spark plugs, Diffrent spark plug wires. Vacumm lines all redone. So im at a loss as to what to do next

Back to basics.

You seem to have a handfull of problems and a very confusing problem.

Your click when starting is probably the starter contacts inside the starter. That is a common toyota problem. Just keep trying it until the starter turns over, jumping it will also help if your battery isn't fully charged.

Once you get it to turn over, pull a plug wire and hold it close to a body ground with a screwdriver pushed into the end of the wire, to check for spark between the screwdriver and the body ground, or "feel the spark" :)

If you get a timing light, hook it up to the #1 cylinder wire and even if it doesn't start, you will get a light and can check the base timing at the crank.

If those are both good, crank it for a few seconds and loosen the cold start injector, or any other pressurized fuel line and fuel should squirt/shoot out. Thats the easy way to check fuel pressure.

Get a stethescope and listen to the injectors as you crank the engine, they should make a rapid and pronounced clicking sound.

In my experience, white smoke is coolant, bluish white is oil, and black is fuel, but coolant and oil can be hard to tell apart, until you smell it, sweetish smelling smoke is coolant.

Even with a blown head gasket it should start, unless there is enough coolant leaking to hydrolock the engine, the engine will start on 3 cylinders. (ask me how I know that!)

Ray.

Ok cool, good post. i will try this out tomorrow once i get off work tonight, I also reached out a botherd a neighbor lol very mechanically inclined and has a MKIV supra that he has done alot work to it, about 800 hp of work.

I would agree on the confusing part, i have had a loss of power issue with this thing forever and have fixed a great deal of problems, even taken it to diff places, including dealership for them to tell me they have no idea what is wrong....

I thought it was becuase of the knock sensor and TPS and that ecu was retarding the timing or w/e cuase had a bad signal from them but the 15mins i got to drive her, she still had that loss of power BAH!! maybe next 2 days i will figure it out

Problem solved????

Went out decided to give it one more go.

Checked fuse box, went ahead and replaced the 15A fuse for the EFI even tho it still looked good.... started her up she cranked isntantly

like faster than she ever has before .... lol

keep a few more of those fuses in the car! dunno why she blew, but in case she does again...

glad u got her running